Advice please- Upgrade = Sr or P12?

Hi everyone. I have a simple system running Roon (many hi-res files and genres) from Win 10 to a Jr (to) Integrated amp (to)speakers. Fairly high quality components. I wonder of course if I’m at the point I may not “hear” any difference with the above changes and while I am pretty familiar with PSA, I have never run a re-generator for instance. I’m not doubting there is an effect, just not sure what I would be able to audibly discern with these old ears. However given the choices above, if you had to recommend one or the other, which would you recommend as a system upgrade?

(Note- Jr/Sr draws modest current and amp is rated at “230 watts in operating mode, no signal”. My guess is the Stellar would have trouble and P12 is the regen answer)

Thank you for any input…

A tough call.

The Jr. sounds like Sr., but not as refined. Adding a power Plant is similar; it adds refinement. Both would result in more better.

While you would immediately hear an improvement, neither would immediately knock you over. Rather over time you would come to luxuriate in the sound. Then if you removed the component you would hear how much you had gained.

It will be fun to learn what others suggest.

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Start with clean power to optimize what you already have.

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I agree with ELK regarding noticeable improvements. While either is a good choice, I recommend the re-generator first. Why, because the re-generator may never need to be replaced but we all like to upgrade our components. Secondly, over time something may change in the AC feed to your house, stereo circuit. The re-generator will take care of it without you having to trouble shoot or buy new components.

When I added my re-generator, I was amazed in the improvement in SQ in my system. Can’t predict the same for you. But I can wish you good listening.

Chas

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Thanks for the suggestions so far. I think I know why Paul killed the Jr- it’s just too damn good!. I really heard a difference when I went from a Sim Moon to the Jr. I don’t expect that to be as pronounced from Jr to Sr. Never tried a re-gen so I’ll do a bit more research. many report impressive gains but as always, mileage may vary.

I would concur with what’s been said so far. Soon I should be able to give my two cents on Sr. vs. Jr., but I’m guessing they may have a lot of orders in the queue at this point. Probably waiting on next production run.

One nice thing about power regeneration - it is like speaker wires, in that it improves Everything that goes through it. So all boats are raised. The improvement can be akin to what Elk mentioned - it can be subtle at first, but then taking it out surprises you with how un-subtle of a change it was.

In the case of recently going from a venerable P3 to the new SP3, it wasn’t particularly subtle in my system. One of the surprises was a greater sense of dynamics. And there’s the good 'ole “blacker background” thing. The whole system is subtly upgraded. Not particularly flashy or “fun” in the way a new DAC is - but Foundational.

Given that you’re primarily streaming, the DAC is certainly a big deal. Though I would say from personal experience with the Jr. that you might be able to make more significant improvements in SQ by working on the digital front end before the Jr. It will resolve those differences.

My two cents ; )

Thank you Mr. Beef. I’m not worried about the production run as there are still units on the market for a limited time. Kinda why I’m asking now. Getting both would be great but so would a lot of things I suppose. Great comment on the front end. Probably worth another post soon. I have Lenovo/Win 10 running Roon straight USB direct. Not sure what else to do. I won’t bore everyone with a ton of Roon settings but it would be nice to know what everyone considers “recommended” I’m doing WASAPI Event, Fixed Volume , DSD over PCM if that helps. I know you are local- do you make house calls? lol. Anyway thanks again.
Anyone in PSA land jump from Jr to SR?.
Never had a re-gen and added one (like a 12)?

I never had the Jr, but you figure, why do they even bother to make a Sr if it is not considerably better than the Jr? Once you have the Sr, you will not have the urge to be upgrading all the time, the Sr is that good.
I’ve had a whole lot of power conditioners in the past, many many, and they don’t do what the regenerator like the P12 can do. No conditioner cleans the sound and just let you hear the music like a regenerator. Once you have one in your system, believe me, you will not want to take it out.
Of course, it would be nice to have both, but either way there will be a very positive addition to the sound quality of your system.
Hope that helps.

I guess I remember a post somewhere where Paul stated the difference between Jr and Sr was about 15%. So kinda on that verge of “worth it or not”. Thanks for sharing the P12 impression . Also the comment above about if I’m 100% streaming, the DAC is critical. I can do both but one soon and the other down the road. And you are right. No upgrading from a Sr. Same with my amp. I don’t even look and I don’t want to go back to separates.

If I recall correctly, the Jr. spun off the Senior. Trickle-down tech, as with fancy drivers from bigger speakers showing up in smaller designs. My guess is the reason for it was price, pretty much. Has a different output stage, display, and so on. I’ve really enjoyed the simple display vs. the touchscreen, which I’ve never been wild about/cared about. So that saves a bunch of money. I like my displays off generally, except when I’m asking it to do something. Both have Ted’s FPGA goodness going on. Percentages on differences like this are always a bit…ehhhh…but people always seem unsatisfied unless you quantify.

I have this really nice sandwich. But This one has bacon on it. What percentage is that? ; ) :man_shrugging:t2:

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One nice thing about the Sr is having 2 i2s inputs if you have the gear or plan on getting the gear to utilize them. I use the Matrix on one and an Oppomod 203 on the other.

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Good point Mr Beef. BTW, bacon is 90% of any sandwich it’s on! However, that being said, 5 out of 4 people are bad at math. I too am smitten with the interface- simple is better. I set it up once and not touch it and mine is off as well. Figure same w/ Sr but that is a chunk of the $. Not that there are not sonic improvements in the Sr, but some cash went towards a touch screen no doubt. Do you use a PSA re-gen?

I don’t use I2 so but is a good point @Baldy.

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I have a Jr in one system and a Sr in one system. Your money is probably best spent getting the P12. The 2 DAC’s are so close in SQ that making everything better with a regenerator probably makes more sense especially if the i2s connections aren’t needed.

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Duh; it’s bacon. Bacon = 100% better than, No Bacon.

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Nice post! Laughed out loud.

Of course Paul and others would tend to disagree with the bacon thing, and so feel free to mentally substitute Mayo or Guac for the bacon. We are inclusive as heck here, as long as you’re not a Debbie Downer. (Apologies to those named Debbie…AiC)

The Regen was remarkably similar to a device I had had for a few months before at the time, and was cheaper, so I sent the beta back. This is not to say that USB-to-Ethernet chains are not effective. They are, or at least can be, depending on the situation. I will go out on a big, strong limb and state that galvanic isolation is now a firmly established deal in Audiophile Computerworld.

I went from a Mac Mini rig to a third-or-fourth generation, fully realized streamer from Auralic last year. The sound of this with a single decent USB cable to the Junior has the USB-Ethernet stuff in a box somewhere. And that was about a $1k chain, with two good USB’s, the send/receive boxes and a good ethernet cable. Any decent server company nowadays has sorted out this whole situation in their devices, so you don’t have to worry about it.

This was why I was thinking/suggesting above that, for the money we’re talking for a Sr., getting a modern server from any of several companies would just kick ass for you. Sonically as well as functionally.

Sorry if any of this post damages my rep as a PS Shill🤷🏻‍♂️

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I assure you your reputation is still intact. Perhaps some “front end” work is in order and a P12 firmly on the list. Can you PM or add a good place to start regarding a “modern server”? Keep in mind I am wi-fi , no Ethernet in my current situation. I stream Spotify a lot and the Jr makes it sound pretty darn good. Then Roon is just USB over to Jr. I don’t mind shopping or building a source if I can still use Roon (I have JRiver as well and use it for phones). Any primer would be helpful if you get a moment.

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Pretty sure there are threads here where you can go down that rabbit-hole.

Off the top of my head - if you are dedicated to Roon, that may restrict you somewhat, but having subscribed for three years (and sorta missing it) I get it.

The thing being you need a Roon Core, which a number of Servers aren’t, but most are Roon Endpoints. I dug the simplicity of no requirement on the front end just in order to run what I regard as (admittedly the Best) database software - arguably not the best SQ, the price one may pay for the Best Database/functionality thing.

So two off the top of my head are Auralic and Aurender. Everyone else feel free to chime in. They at least have a track record of several years.

Are you going to RMAF? Will be there first thing Friday at least - and probably part of Saturday. Can usually only handle 4 hours or so a day of these things ; )

Off to help calord pick Iconoclast speaker cables…

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I have the Jr. and the Sr. Which one sounds better again? :slight_smile:
I also have a P20. If I was stuck with the P20 and the Jr. I would always obsess about shouldn’t I have the Sr. so you might as well accept the fact that eventually you will have both. Unless you have that, what is it called? Self control. I don’t have any of that.

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It’s been awhile since I moved from the JR to the SR and this move
was driven by the reduced noise in the SR. I was using the DAC as
the pre as well (no BHK yet) and the noise reduction with my inefficient
speakers (Maggies) makes a difference. On the order of 6db less if I quote
Ted correctly. Yes, the SR sounds better and the choice of a regenerator
(have a P20) has equal merits as all have pointed out. I like Beef’s
description of “raising all the boats”. Just make sure all those boats
are tethered to good cables and cords which can make equal
improvements. An open mind and wallet is all you need.

I do remember a couple years back where there were threads on noise and the benefits of a pre etc. I’m running full 100 into an integrated and we are as quiet as a mouse. There should be some sonic gain in a move up though as quiet is a good thing. I have tentatively put out a few local pings on my Jr. to see if there is any interest. I am tethered fairly well I think using Zen Audio XLR, PSA Power cable and Transparent speaker line. Thanks.