Yes, what an incredible idea. We should add a bunch of tires to our cars since 4 do such a good job.
So one pre-amp makes a huge improvement but the second would do nothing at all? Why would that be?
How about another dac? Will that improve it. Why not 10 speakers? That surely will sound better.
Will more tires make your car handle better? I get it, you know all the answers, everyone else obviously doesn’t. Please enlighten us more with your math and incredible wit.
You didn’t offer any answers of your own, you just dismissed my perspective. But you’re upset that I wanted to hold my line?
In audio, whatever brings you joy is right for you. But having a clear understanding of how things work gives you a chance to make better decisions, maybe save some money, and probably get even better enjoyment. And similarly, mistaken ideas that get spread will cost other people as they are working out what they want to do.
It is super important to acknowledge and celebrate (and I do) that many people (including you) really love the sound of their pre-amp. That’s great! Enjoy it!
But it is also important that people are clear on what components do. If your pre-amp is not acting “straight wire with gain” then the sound you love is something that’s being added to the audio. My question about having multiple pre-amps is just to highlight that idea: if it seems silly to put two pre-amps in series, why is that? In your view, does a pre-amp add something to the audio signal or not?
If it doesn’t add anything, then what’s the problem with me not using one? Why would you assume that any given system must sound better with one?
Once again, you should do as you please. I can’t remember telling you, I have a problem with you not using one.
You never answered my question about dacs or car tires. How many dacs is best?
Apologies, I thought your questions were rhetorical and intended to avoid responding to mine.
The way I think about it, it’s best to convert digital to analog only once in a playback system. Some people have more DACs than that, going from say a DS DAC analog output into an active digital crossover which performs an analog-to-digital conversion, processes that to produce different frequency-limited streams for each driver, then converts each of those separately back to analog. If I were doing active crossovers I’d be seeking to stay in digital realm until the very last step, so not including the DS DAC in the chain.
The number of tyres on a vehicle depends on the number of wheels it has. Each wheel that is expected to bear any load should be equipped with precisely one tyre. The number of wheels is up to the designer of the vehicle, and different numbers can legitimately be chosen to suit different kinds of requirements. Less a matter of personal preference than one of practicality though. In general, the greater the Gross Vehicle Mass, the more wheels will be required, though using larger or smaller wheels also influences this decision.
As for speakers, the correct answer is 2. 
I actually have six speakers for my two-channel setup. All grouped in the same place. Two sets of Monitor Audio GR 20s side by side and one set of GR 10s above. Each speaker has its own separate amp power. The one thing about this hobby is there are no absolutes. That’s for sure.
And it sounds pretty darn skippy!
I agree with badbeef. Analogue pre amps are usually adding distortion, which people may like. Historically they were needed to add gain. I used integrated amps for decades. The only pre amp I ever used, for 6 months, was from Hattor: balanced, two 64-step attenuators and completely passive, no power on the signal path. Cost me $800. Added nothing, took away nothing. Now back to an integrated system.
So to those who say a pre amp is vital to a system, if a pre amp is completely transparent, is it no good?
I would add that if people are looking to a pre-amp to take the edge off their digital, give it a bit of warmth or add a bit of life, they might like to look a bit more closely at their digital system and why it doesn’t sound as they would like.
I’m actually surprised that someone hasn’t come out with an Analog Preamp emulation plugin for computer-based home audio use, as it has proven very popular in pro audio, as we mentioned above. I would certainly try it if they did, though it would require a computer that runs the plugin/a plugin designed for the given computer or server. So if someone makes one for my Auralic, that would be interesting.
I tend to prefer no DSP in my stereo though, and a physical pre is easier and has a bunch of gozintas.
re: the “why not add more pres” question - see the “Life at 80 or 90” thread, which is basically what that’s about. You don’t need more, you just turn it up and turn the DAC down if you want more pre sound. Easy. Again, so many of the arguments for not using a pre are theoretical or “objectively speaking, it should be like this”, and end up getting into the same sorts of things as cable arguments.
I can absolutely see not using a pre if your DAC handles all your sources and your system is all digital. I did for a while when I wasn’t using my TT. If you had an all-digital system and added an analog source, you would then need an ADC, and you’re into another kettle of fish on that end.
Blockquote
If you had an all-digital system and added an analog source, you would then need an ADC, and you’re into another kettle of fish on that end.
… which is what Linn and Devialet do. One of the reason for getting Devialet is that I had two tonearms (and still do) and I’ve yet to see a good sensible phono amp that can take two inputs and ten you need a pre-amp. Just adds up to lots of boxes and cables. I actually had a bespoke unit made. My Devialet has both pairs of RCAs programmed as phono inputs and the ADC is applied.
Sweet. Yeah - I could likely live the majority of the time with a Two-Input Preamp. Either a built-in Phono section, as mine has, and one or two Line ins, or - once I get my new Stellar Phono Pre (koff, koff), just two line ins.
Actually asked if that was a possibility (as I think others may have) for a future, less-expensive “BHK Pre Jr.” But the sense I got was that the Math did not work out in terms of money for PS/BHK. More inputs does not add as much to the incremental cost as us end users might think.
Edit: Of course us “more’s gooder/many-box” folks would rail at being stuck with whatever ADC they built into that thing. There’s already a better one ; )
“Skippy”
Sheesh - Imagine when this Forum is fully Interactive, Global, Realtime Video Chat.
Actually that may resolve some issues ; )
Reckon it’ll create new ones as well…
You might actually need “full-time” moderators! 
They will look like that Hunger Games dude.
@yomaha, we hope you are liking the Thread Hijacking ; ) You never know what it’s going to turn into.
@dvorak: re: the emulation/modeling thing (and also the distortion, etc. thing) - this video is fun for anyone interested in Capitol Records and Capitol Studios:
At around 13 minutes they talk about the echo chambers Les Paul designed, which are essentially pie-shaped concrete underground rooms with speakers and mics in them. It was the only way to do it at the time. They are arguably a significant part of the signature sound of some of those old Capitol classic recordings by Nat Cole, Sinatra, etc.
Universal Audio (a bunch of their original hardware still in use in the equipment racks in these studios) just came out with plugins of these echo chambers. Can’t wait to try them out : )
But - they will add noise and distortion… ; )
cool stuff. thanks.