RE: Reference 250 stereo amp
How is the bass handling…on a scale of 1 to 10, one being ever so slightly ‘mushy’ five being ‘warm and tube -like’ with just a tad bit of softness, and ten being firm authoritative grip of even the deepest bass notes…?
How’s the midrange and treble…?
Thank you.
timequest said RE: Reference 250 stereo ampI enjoyed the beta reviews immensely, but I am anxious to gain some details:How is the bass handling…on a scale of 1 to 10, one being ever so slightly ‘mushy’ five being ‘warm and tube -like’ with just a tad bit of softness, and ten being firm authoritative grip of even the deepest bass notes…?
How’s the midrange and treble…?
Thank you.
Bass handling compared to previously experienced amps (preferably using the aforementioned scale of ‘1 to 10’)
Ability to play very loud without clipping or going into ‘safe mode’ (‘unflappability’) - at times I run my DS all the way to 100 going directly into my Krell Evolution 302 without any clipping…I also find that on many DSD files, I need to run the DS at 100. I love jazz and acoustic music, but when I play some Led Zeppelin, I want to literally and realistically feel John Bonham’s bass drum in my chest…This is a proverbial ‘deal breaker.’
Treble clarity and smoothness (any noticeable brightness or grain)
Mid-range fluidity (fluid across the mid-range, fleshed out, body- how do male and female vocals sound)
I’m ready to ‘pull the trigger’ but doing so sight unseen, with no formal reviews, leaves me relying heavily on my brethren forum betas…Thank you.
_Ben
@devgarret3, might I offer that if you are in the U.S. there might be a chance for you to hear the Monos in person? Paul could confirm if they will be either at RMAF or Capital Audio Fest. If you could make it to one of these shows (assuming they will be there) you could get a firsthand listen. I can appreciate wanting to get as much info in advance, seeing as how they are not exactly an inexpensive proposition. It might be worth a comparatively small cost to hear them at a show, and also get the added benefits of everything else a good show can offer. Just a thought.
tony22 said @devgarret3, might I offer that if you are in the U.S. there might be a chance for you to hear the Monos in person? Paul could confirm if they will be either at RMAF or Capital Audio Fest. If you could make it to one of these shows (assuming they will be there) you could get a firsthand listen. I can appreciate wanting to get as much info in advance, seeing as how they are not exactly an inexpensive proposition. It might be worth a comparatively small cost to hear them at a show, and also get the added benefits of everything else a good show can offer. Just a thought.Thanks Tony. I sure would love to attend an audio show. My life currently revolves around my sons' baseball (two boys, both in 'little league,' both in "USSA tournament ball," both in "All Stars," and both in the "Global World Series." After that, we start all over with football, then basketball (four basketball teams between the two boys of which two teams are traveling teams), and one son is in city, and tournament soccer as well! And, you guessed it, 'old dad' is coaching...............My daughter is in traveling show choir, band, chorus, theater, and a 'traveling youth choir'.................I have no life outside of my children! My music hobby is something I can do (when) I'm home - which isn't all that often!
- yes, I like that too!
I think the best option in your situation (not being able to hear the amp before purchase) would be to buy from a dealer that will let you return it if it doesn’t work well in your system. IIRC PSA has a “no hassle” return policy for items purchased directly; I have also dealt with Music Direct in Chicago who have a similar policy and who are a PSA dealer. I’m sure there are others. You would only be out the shipping cost if you felt the amp just wasn’t for you.
There probably aren’t enough beta Monos out there yet to make this possible, but it would be great if there was a beta-tester pair nearby that you could hear.
I’m waiting patiently for my beta mono’s to arrive, perhaps this week??? I am in the Youngstown, Ohio area, if that helps at all.
Hi Alan,
I received an update from Scott about a half hour ago. The parts for the monoblocks are arriving today and they should be shipping our beta units by the end of the week or early next week.
Thank magister. I’m interested in the stereo amp not the monos…besides, that’s too logical, and I’m much easier than that! Some overwhelming praise would likely ‘tip my decision process!’ A few, “this is by far the best amp” statements would go a long way! A couple, “this is a giant killer that lives up to the hype” would likely seal the deal!! I’m just not getting a full sense of how the betas feel about the stereo amp. Dropping into ones system a world class amp that can compete with the best in the world would, it seems reasonable to assume, leave a definite impression.
Looking for a consensus!!
Thanks!
_Ben
timequest said I enjoyed the beta reviews immensely, but I am anxious to gain some details:
Bass handling compared to previously experienced amps (preferably using the aforementioned scale of ‘1 to 10’)
Ability to play very loud without clipping or going into ‘safe mode’ (‘unflappability’) - at times I run my DS all the way to 100 going directly into my Krell Evolution 302 without any clipping…I also find that on many DSD files, I need to run the DS at 100. I love jazz and acoustic music, but when I play some Led Zeppelin, I want to literally and realistically feel John Bonham’s bass drum in my chest…This is a proverbial ‘deal breaker.’
Treble clarity and smoothness (any noticeable brightness or grain)
Mid-range fluidity (fluid across the mid-range, fleshed out, body- how do male and female vocals sound)
I’m ready to ‘pull the trigger’ but doing so sight unseen, with no formal reviews, leaves me relying heavily on my brethren forum betas…Thank you.
_Ben
The bass is deep, tight and more defined than with Pass Labs x250. The bass itself does depend on how it’s recorded. E.g. the sound of Pink Floyd drums is warm, soft and tube-like. Daft Punk drums are tight, energetic, deep and very dynamic.
Mid-range is on the dry side with Pikes Peak and liquid with Yale
The treble is more extended than on x250 and more extended with Yale
Bottom line - in my case the sound depends on the source immensely. BHK250 shows the difference much more clear, than x250.
Ben, I’m not sure what you are asking for is realistic. The beta testers have already (for the most part) posted their comparisons to the other amps they have had in their systems. In my case that includes a PSA Classic 250 and VTL ST85, which are maybe 12-15 years old. Compared to those amps I would give the BHK 250s 10s across the board. My Classic 250 was, and still is, a great amp but the BHK wipes the floor with it. In my system I find it to be just stunning. To me the amp’s overwhelming qualities are neutrality and incredibly low noise. It has allowed me to hear just how good the DS really is, and the DS is really good. I would put the BHK up against anything I’ve heard but that’s a limited sample and anything I’ve heard outside my system involves too many variables to draw conclusions about a single component. I haven’t heard your Krells (and frankly haven’t loved the Krells I have heard). Your results may vary and your taste in equipment undoubtedly will to at least some extent. The BHK does not make my chest rattle that much but then I probably do not play as loud as you do, at least when you listen to Led Zep. I do hear low bass notes at what I think are appropriate (but not exaggerated) levels. I have a 30-watt late 1960s Fisher tube receiver that has more obvious bass impact but then I’m pretty sure that’s the result of a big bulge in the mid-bass. My listening room is quite small and I never get anywhere near clipping. Some of your questions about how loud it goes with a direct DS connection is a function of gain rather than power. I briefly ran directly from my DS and, for my normal listening levels, the DS volume was in the '70s with the 20dB attenuator engaged. Again, this is in a small room with reasonably efficient speakers so there’s no guarantee your results will be the same. If what you’re really looking for is a few examples of overwhelming praise, I suggest you go back and reread this thread. They’re there.
Thanks Alekz and Steve. I appreciate your reviews. Steve, you are right, this is such a subjective subject and it’s hardly fair to ask the ‘betas’ to provide any more than they already have. It’s hard to believe, but I’ve acted impulsively in the past, and I may be acting a bit to precautions here!!! I have no doubt that the BHK 250 is a great amp.
Yeah, I thought you were looking at the stereo amp.
But I’m afraid it’s not that easy. Based on what I’ve read so far (haven’t heard the amp yet) there doesn’t seem to be much question that it’s a world-class amp. But whether any amp, world-class or slightly below that exalted level, will be the best match for your room, your components, and the wiring in your brain no one can say. There are a lot of thoughtful people here who are very experienced in audio, often with excellent-quality gear; I think this kind of experience tends to steer people away from immediately declaring component X the best thing since sliced bread. (But when they do – and some have – you can believe them.)
There aren’t a heck of a lot of BHK amps, even the stereo version, out there. So you can wait for more reviews, but I suspect that many BHK owners are too busy listening to music to post here
. Or you can get one and try it for 30 days and see what happens. I am facing this very decision (see my post earlier, it’s #88 or thereabouts in this thread). I’m in the middle of moving now, so I have an excuse to postpone making up my mind.
Edit: while I was composing this post, Steve jumped in with some of the same thoughts. You’ve gotta be fast around here . . .
While we are on this subject… Where is the rest of the beta-testers? Not that I doubt my ears, but I really hoped that the list of the compared to BHK250 amps would be a bit longer …
Me too, but I don’t have a good sense of how many beta testers there are. I imagine a number of the early units went to reviewers. Hopefully we will soon start seeing reports from purchasers of non-beta units.
We have Beta Testers that are not reporting. It is frustrating as they are note living up to their side of the bargain.
Alekz said While we are on this subject.... Where is the rest of the beta-testers? Not that I doubt my ears, but I really hoped that the list of the compared to BHK250 amps would be a bit longer ....This was my point guys. I was hoping to read more reviews and gain more insight from a variety of users. I never meant to overlook the efforts of you folks who have provided good input.
Unfortunately not all beta testers have received units. 
We finally got in and approved the next batch of binding posts we’ve been waiting for. We can now start shipping next week.
@Timequest PSA has a trial period, no risk I believe.
Okay…I was ‘begging the question’ no doubt about it; wanting someone to tell me to buy the amp because it is the greatest thing in the world! Let me try asking a specific question in the following way…
…I believe there is a consensus among betas that the stereo amp is very fluid, smooth, and detailed, very revealing and precise. Traits that I desire. How about sheer power…if any of you betas are old ‘rock-n-rollers’ from days gone by, have you cranked up anything hard - like Zeppelin (“Since I’ve Been Loving You” comes to mind), Floyd (“Shine On You Crazy Diamond” and “Money” come to mind), Deep Purple (“Lazy” comes to mind), etc… If so, how loud can you crank it without distortion/clipping…95dB…100dB…100+? This might be a fun test!
The vast majority of my music collection is jazz, vocals, acoustic/singer/songwriter, cello concerts…etc. I typically play these files between 65 -75 on the PS volume - direct into amp. On DSD files, I have to turn up the volume to between 85 and 95 (maybe even 100). Once in a blue moon, when the house is empty, I’ll throw on some '70’s rock…with the DS volume up to 95-100. At this level, it’s VERY loud but ‘clean.’ I am curious if anyone has tried this with the BHK stereo 250? Here’s a great test: If you have a copy of The J. Giles Band’s “Give It To me” there is a killer bass and drum segment near the end of the track…try cranking this up as loud as you can without clipping…what happened; did the drums/bass sound ‘live’ in your room? “The World is a Ghetto” by War, or “Higher Ground” by Stevie Wonder are tracks that scream for being played loud.