# Calling all trained listeners **URL:** \ **Category:** Everything Else\ **Created:** [November 30, 2020, 9:32pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/calling-all-trained-listeners/20360 "2020-11-30T21:32:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![stevensegal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/35a633/32.png) [@stevensegal](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/stevensegal)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2020, 9:32pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/calling-all-trained-listeners/20360/1 "2020-11-30T21:32:19Z")
Today’s Paul’s Posts has numerous references to “trained listeners”. This is a frequent occurrence. I’ve never had listening training. Is anyone out there a trained listener? Where do you get such training? What do they teach you? ---
**Author:** ![wijber](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/wijber/32/2164_2.png) [@wijber](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/wijber)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2020, 10:19pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/calling-all-trained-listeners/20360/2 "2020-11-30T22:19:34Z")
I am self-taught 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dirk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/dirk/32/277810_2.png) [@Dirk](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/Dirk)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2020, 10:30pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/calling-all-trained-listeners/20360/3 "2020-11-30T22:30:17Z")
It was easy for me… Prodigy. ---
**Author:** ![donkt150](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@donkt150](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/donkt150)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2020, 10:30pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/calling-all-trained-listeners/20360/4 "2020-11-30T22:30:40Z")
It cost me, a lot of money in gear to get my training. ---
**Author:** ![Baldy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/baldy/32/223847_2.png) [@Baldy](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/Baldy)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2020, 11:46pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/calling-all-trained-listeners/20360/5 "2020-11-30T23:46:32Z")
It’s what my wife would like me to be. ---
**Author:** ![Elk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/elk/32/1240_2.png) [@Elk](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/Elk)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2020, 11:53pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/calling-all-trained-listeners/20360/6 "2020-11-30T23:53:26Z")
Many countries recognize Tonmeister degrees. ---
**Author:** ![stevensegal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/35a633/32.png) [@stevensegal](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/stevensegal)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2020, 12:12am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/calling-all-trained-listeners/20360/7 "2020-12-01T00:12:03Z")
> [@Baldy](#): > > It’s what my wife would like me to be. That’s the perfect answer, I hadn’t anticipated. ---
**Author:** ![Barsley](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/barsley/32/211963_2.png) [@Barsley](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/Barsley)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2020, 12:13am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/calling-all-trained-listeners/20360/8 "2020-12-01T00:13:40Z")
To be honest with you, it does take time and effort. Some, who for decades have worked with or installed systems professionally, with that comes a set of experiences that only having done it reveals. Having the ability to hear some really good systems, gives you a benchmark. Or working in the audio industry. Knowing how music is actually produced, or having experience as a musician, where you know exactly what the pit sounds like, or 7 rows back. These experiences all give benchmarks for your own senses to have a frame of reference. ---
**Author:** ![Elk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/elk/32/1240_2.png) [@Elk](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/Elk)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2020, 1:14am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/calling-all-trained-listeners/20360/10 "2020-12-01T01:14:49Z")
What do _you_ think? ---
**Author:** ![senna1a](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/senna1a/32/46992_2.png) [@senna1a](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/senna1a)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2020, 1:37am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/calling-all-trained-listeners/20360/11 "2020-12-01T01:37:36Z")
I thought Duncan and @DarrenMyers did a nice job of discussing practice/training our listening skills in their recent HiFi Podcast. ---
**Author:** ![owlsalum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e47c2d/32.png) [@owlsalum](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/owlsalum)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2020, 3:42am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/calling-all-trained-listeners/20360/12 "2020-12-01T03:42:03Z")
As an ex-musician (I no longer play, clarinetist, saxophonist, anything with a single reed), I’ll assert that if you’ve ever played an instrument with even a passing level of skill you become an accomplished listener. Especially true if you’ve ever been an orchestral musician (as I was). It’s mandatory. I’ve benefitted tremendously from my days as an active instrumentalist. Quite possibly one of the reasons I gravitated to high end audio as a serious hobby. ---
**Author:** ![Serhan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/serhan/32/192329_2.png) [@Serhan](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/Serhan)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2020, 4:25am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/calling-all-trained-listeners/20360/13 "2020-12-01T04:25:55Z")
[Musicians and high end audio | PS Audio](https://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/musicians-and-high-end-audio/) ---
**Author:** ![badbeef](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/badbeef/32/142_2.png) [@badbeef](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/badbeef)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2020, 4:48am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/calling-all-trained-listeners/20360/14 "2020-12-01T04:48:17Z")
I hear a cry for help. ---
**Author:** ![Serhan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/serhan/32/192329_2.png) [@Serhan](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/Serhan)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2020, 5:03am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/calling-all-trained-listeners/20360/15 "2020-12-01T05:03:29Z")
Darren admitted fine-tuning the Stellar Phono Pre by ear. He said that measurements did not give him what he wanted, so he had to go back and tweak things by ear! I believe he did a great job. ---
**Author:** ![jazznut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jazznut](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/jazznut)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2020, 7:59am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/calling-all-trained-listeners/20360/16 "2020-12-01T07:59:59Z")
Everyone who does things for a longer time with a certain addiction is trained more or less. ---
**Author:** ![stevensegal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/35a633/32.png) [@stevensegal](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/stevensegal)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2020, 8:32am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/calling-all-trained-listeners/20360/17 "2020-12-01T08:32:00Z")
> [@jazznut](#): > > Everyone who does things for a longer time with a certain addiction is trained more or less. A friend of mine, the more golf he plays the worse he gets. Just because you do something a long time, doesn’t make you any good at it. Worse, human hearing diminishes with age. ---
**Author:** ![Serhan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/serhan/32/192329_2.png) [@Serhan](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/Serhan)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2020, 9:26am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/calling-all-trained-listeners/20360/19 "2020-12-01T09:26:40Z")
In Paul’s defense, I personally benefited from his numerous advice videos and online comments. I happen to agree with some of his views, and disagree with some others, something that happens everyday at home, work, etc. and I happen to have his initial(s) on most of my HiFi components. I am very happy with the stuff I bought from PSA and never had an issue, not even a minor one. So you may call me a satisfied customer. Back on to the topic. I think this is not a scientific discussion, so we are allowed to speculate! I personally think musicians spend a lot of time learning and rehearsing alone and/or with their bands / orchestras. Whatever time is left after that should not be spent with a pair of speakers. There should be time for self, family, and friends! Besides, live music is never like recorded music. Trust me, if I were good with an instrument, I would spend more time playing than listening even as a hobby, but I am not 😞 ---
**Author:** ![davida](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/davida/32/94292_2.png) [@davida](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/davida)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2020, 12:33pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/calling-all-trained-listeners/20360/20 "2020-12-01T12:33:00Z")
Well said Serhan…well said !! ---
**Author:** ![jazznut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jazznut](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/jazznut)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2020, 1:30pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/calling-all-trained-listeners/20360/22 "2020-12-01T13:30:49Z")
> [@stevensegal](#): > > I recently went on to the YouTube channel and saw Paul coming out with this bizarre argument that professional musicians don’t do high end audio because high quality sound (live) is their day job. I agree with Paul for 3 reasons, assuming we mean the same thing (didn’t watch the video): 1. playing music sounds better in a way that the attempt to replicate this with high end fails in principle and therefore is not worth the effort for many who do 2. musicians with playing music have a much more satisfying connection to music than just listening to it. The latter therefore gets a lower importance (but is certainly practiced, if rather for the musical than the sound aspect) 3. musicians spend a lot of time playing music, it is their job. As with all of us, what we do daily (even if we love to do it) mostly doesn’t get the priority aside of work time or is even avoided then for the sake of other interests. This also makes high end listening less important for this group of people imo. And as musicians also usually don’t have the most cash on hand, it’s obvious that few would spend their money on a hobby that has less priority for them for those reasons. ---
**Author:** ![michaelhifi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a5b964/32.png) [@michaelhifi](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/michaelhifi)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2020, 1:36pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/calling-all-trained-listeners/20360/23 "2020-12-01T13:36:51Z")
> [@stevensegal](#): > > My issue is that this whole “trained listener” thing is just another audiophile myth along the premise that that if you can’t hear that one product is better than another, it’s down to your failings as a listener rather than the product. Consequently only “trained listeners” can properly evaluate products and untrained listeners should take their word for it. I agree with you 100%. Another “Audiophile” craziness. And we wonder why most people could care less about this hobby. Next people will try to tell me what sounds good. Oh wait that is already the norm. 🤔 🤢 [Next page](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/calling-all-trained-listeners/20360.md?page=2)