It’s hard to predict which features of a cable (or anything for that matter) will affect a given system the most. Arguably the biggest problem in USB cables is having the conductors right next to the power/ground and the Corning cables clearly solve that. Groundloops are more of a problem than most people seem to recognize. But USB cables are balanced interconnects so ground loop interference is less of a problem in USB than unbalanced connections. Also the Corning cables have another thing in their favor when it comes to groundloops: they have thinner/longer power conductors than most USB cables - The current that flows in a groundloop depends on the impedance around the groundloop so thinner conductors is a benefit in this instance.
The LANRover also should isolate the grounds (since the network cables are both transformer coupled and have common mode chokes on both ends.)
The iFi iDefender 3.0 will help other USB connections more than Corning 3.Optical connections. In the case of the Corning cables whether the benefits of the iDefender beat the potential problems of added complexity, extra connections, and (possibly) jitter isn’t obvious.
Personally I’d tend to avoid extra complexity of chaining multiple ameliorations unless and until you can show that each adds benefit without adding too much tweakyness to the system.
Thanks Ted, yep there are so many devices and cables to help with USB audio, it can be easy (and expensive) to get carried away. And each addition to the chain may solve one problem but introduce another (or two), as you say.
Being someone with a music server 30-50ft away from my DAC depending on how you route the cable, I thought i’d add my experiences with the Corning and offer some brief initial comments on the Lanrover… albeit a month late to the thread. I’m a long time PS Audio user… had an Ultralink 2 way back in the day and it sounded amazing (albeit in a more audiophile friendly room, then). Now in a different location I run a different manufacturer but there’s PS Audio blood in its design, as well.
I think the Corning (with my Dac’s asynchronous USB section being fed with a relatively cheap Li-ion or LiPo USB to supply the externally powered USB port) was maybe the best sound i’ve had from my music server. However… I’ve been through 3 of these cables. They work great for 6-8 mos until they start faulting and ultimately hardly work at all. Many reboots of dac and server to try and restore normalcy are an indication. The first immediate signs of this (if you are lucky to have a warning) are foreshadowed by a few random pops and clicks before the banshee explosion of static hiss destroys any serenity you may have that night listening to your favorite meditative tunes (or whatever they may be). It’s like having a great massage until somebody drills a fork into the back of your neck. Anyways…
I’ve since tried to get by with my Audio Engine bluetooth receiver (which i have for streaming random audio off the iPad) but for serious listening to an uncompressed audio library it doesn’t cut it. AptX bluetooth incl. It’s soft and not particularly detailed… and of course full of pops and clicks unless you limit your s/w to 48k playback.
But… (just yesterday) I installed the Lanrover to my system and happy to report that on my 2011 Mac Mini running Bit Perfect it was immediately recognized and running smoothly… at least after i’d discovered i had to limit my playback s/w to 352.8 vs the usual 384 which the Corning could handle (until it couldn’t handle anything… down the road). I’m ok losing that 31.2 of samples since most my audio is 16/44.1 up sampled to 352.8. Oddly running Audirvana for playback the Lanrover only passes 176.4 to the DAC even though no limits are set… but i use Bit Perfect mostly so that’s not a worry.
I’m actually not sure the Lanrover beats or even meets the Corning (with battery augmentation) in terms of sound yet… but so far it’s working smoothly and suspect it’ll be more robust. $599 buys roughly 2 1/2 years supply of Corning optical USB cables in this room… but the semi-annual tear down and re-routing of a new Corning cable was wearing thin. I do think i’m going to have to try a better battery or ultra cap power supply with the Lanrover to see if i can get back to what i had… but what the Lanrover is doing now is acceptable… and i’m just happy to be listening to my library again.
I used PSA’s included wall wart. it’s actually slightly better than a ‘wall wart’ but i’m suspicious of it vs a good battery or cap supply. I had a cheap Li-Ion device made by Musical Paradise which worked great with the Corning optical while the cable was effective. You’d flip a switch to charge at night and flip it back to switch to batteries the next day to listen. Very cheap and effective little device.
I recommended the LANRover concept to PS Audio - Tho I was more interested in a version that used an optical cable instead of a coper cable. When I tested a prototype it worked well for me and allowed a longer more convenient USB connection to the DS. I suspect that most people will find it to have better sound quality than a direct USB connection tho YMMV.
Thought i’d add another update to the new Lanrover (maybe i should migrate this but it’s probably the last, or second-last post i’ll do on transitioning out of my Corning Optical USB saga).
With the Lanrover, once i’d arrived at optimal playback settings on the server (32 bit/352.8khz/2-4k buffer on USB2.0), and after a few days of use, some minor low level ticks and pops i’d experienced the first night’s listening on higher data rate files (and 320k streams) have vanished and the playback is solid and smooth now. Not sure if you could chalk this up to a ‘digital burn in’ but it’s gone from 3-4 minor glitches per hour the first night to none… the last two sessions. Faultless playback listening a solid 6 hrs tonight. I’d say it’s working as advertised. I don’t do DSD so i can’t comment on that.
I’d also say the sound has improved a bit… soundstaging starting to tighten up as I shift my DACs filters a bit. It’s maybe bridging the gap to the Corning/Musical Paradise battery supply by another 50% using the stock PSA power brick. This is entirely speculative as i haven’t gone back to try and temporarily resurrect the Corning to compare for a bit, but at this point i could be happy with this and contemplating if i want to spend another $400 on an upgraded power supply for the last bit of better…
One other thing i wondered about… if the Corning just doesn’t like 2-headed USB’s with battery power supplies. Maybe it plays better with DACs w non-galvanized powered usb sections… but then that sort of mitigates the advantage of it perhaps.
jwh9 said
One other thing i wondered about.. if the Corning just doesn't like 2-headed USB's with battery power supplies. Maybe it plays better with DACs w non-galvanized powered usb sections.. but then that sort of mitigates the advantage of it perhaps.
FWIW I've had my Corning 3.Optical cable from when they were first announced and have been using it continuously for the last year or year and a half. It does have tiny copper wires and if there was (for whatever reason) too much repeated flexing (especially near a connector) it may be a problem? I probably disconnect and reconnect it every few days at times and every week or so at other times (not because it stops working, but because I swap DSs and DS Jrs, and do other system juggling.)
My first cable lasted just over a year and with the first failure i assumed it was me (still possible because the routing is certainly a gauntlet for a delicate copper lead… behind a refridgerator and various other large things and then under an albeit spacious and rigid but-still-stepped-upon aluminum door jam) before it gets to the wall where the DAC is located.
So when i replaced the first failed cable, i made protective coverings for all these areas (PVC or cardboard depending on the situation) and the routing was affixed to the wall behind these objects and the protective shields that i’d made with wide adhesive tape. After the second, then third failure… figured it was time for another solution (though i’m still not confident it wasn’t just some other complication in my system). I’m sure Corning has sold loads of these cables and many are probably in critical applications, so if there were design/qc issues i’d guess they’d have been addressed long ago, if not in development. That said… the tech packed into the connectors is probably not industrial strength, but then Apple has their far smaller chip-laden lightning connector in mass use… so…
Please let us know if the unspeakable happens with yours, because you’re probably at a record lifespan compared to mine.
Are you splitting your DAC lead with battery power (which may have voltages that run low)?
I liked the cable a lot otherwise… an elegant, cost-effective, & good sounding solution to a complicated problem. God speed:)
jwh9 said
Are you splitting your DAC lead with battery power (which may have voltages that run low)?
No, I use the 3.Optical cable directly between my main USB hub and the DS. I was wondering if somehow the setup you are using ends up with a constant current thru the 3.Optical cable, if so, that doesn't sound like a good idea, but I don't know exactly how your setup is wired.
I’m trying to understand this thread so hope you don’t mind a couple questions.
Your said in previous posts that ‘you can’t beat optical for isolation’ and that the Corning was ‘a small step up in your system’.
Looking at the Corning website it seems that 10 metres is the minimum size and for my set-up I’d need a maximum of 1 metre (and am not to wild about the idea of 9 metres of spare cable looping around behind the rack). That said the price-point of this cable and the fact someone as knowledgeable as yourself uses it is intriguing. If I upgrade my USB cable I’d probably look at either this or something like the audioquest diamond or JCAT (both of which are significantly more painful to the wallet!)
Do you attribute that ‘small step up’ to the fact it’s optical or because you needed a longer length and it performs better over such lengths?
Sorry if that’s a dumb question.
PS this is my first post directly to you but as a very happy new owner of the DS senior can I just say thanks and keep up the great work!!
Tho I like the ability to move the DS anywhere in my listening room in practice a normal 5’ or 6’ USB reaches so I do have the 3.Optical cable curled up behind the DAC - on the other hand that curl of “wire” only needs to be about 3-5" around (it comes in a tight wind in the original box and you don’t have to take much length out if you don’t want.
On the other hand getting your computer farther from the rest of your audio system can be a good thing so, if you have the 3.Optical cable and moving the computer is a reasonable possibility in your system, you ought to at least try it.
Any thoughts on how the Corning is likely to perform versus a 1 meter ‘audiophile’ USB like the AQ Diamond? I guess I mean did you go for the Corning for the length factor rather or the optical factor?
Yep, mostly RFI, EMI, etc. from the computer (and any peripherals like UPS’s, routers, external drives, etc. and their switching power supplies…) Also there’s a smaller chance for being on the same electrical circuit/circuit breakers with a little physical separation. None of these devices are really designed to minimize all of that digital hash on their cables, power cables or from their enclosures. Most struggle to meet the RFI limits allowed by law or regulatory agency(ies).
In my setup a dual-head iFi usb cable (powered via a computer-audio purposed battery supply which has a wall-wart charger which is switched off from AC current when listening and switched on again when charging at night), is replacing the cornings power lead and powering the DACs usb input. The Corning is initially powered by the music server but only sees the data side of the iFi cable at the DACs receiving end. Probably a setup you’ve seen before.
I was just wondering if maybe my battery supply running low to the dac would somehow compromise the Corning with the DACs usb section being not so responsive (i.e. when the battery was perhaps low). This never manifested itself in the form of glitches or drops until many months later however, leading me to believe it was the cable eventually failing and not the battery only delivering 4.8V at times (or whatever). I’d like to think not but i’d doubt the Corning engineers thought there would be a battery involved at the receiving end.
If my DACs usb didn’t need 5v off the usb cable maybe this would not be a problem (Wyred DAC2DSD).
I was just wondering if maybe my battery supply running low to the dac would somehow compromise the Corning with the DACs usb section being not so responsive (i.e. when the battery was perhaps low). This never manifested itself in the form of glitches or drops until many months later however, leading me to believe it was the cable eventually failing and not the battery only delivering 4.8V at times (or whatever). I’d like to think not but i’d doubt the Corning engineers thought there would be a battery involved at the receiving end.
If my DACs usb didn’t need 5v off the usb cable maybe this would not be a problem (Wyred DAC2DSD).
The DS dac doesn't need 5v from the usb cable, it draws no power what so ever from the USB cable - however to meet the USB spec and allow people to add and remove other devices on the USB tree it needs to signal correctly over the 5V line at least when it's added to the USB tree and/or when the host (PC, MAC or whatever) powers on and/or comes out of various levels of sleep. If we kludge the DS to not signal properly other devices (some Apple stuff) isn't reliable with the DS (and in this case it's not Apples fault, it's ours for not following the USB spec.)
I don’t have schematics for the dual-head iFi cable and I don’t know that I’m following correctly what’s powered by what and when. If there’s a device providing power to the USB cable on each end at the same time (and especially if at times if one of them might be pulling the line down while the other is pulling it up, which can may happen if one end or the other isn’t following the USB spec and is powered off but still connected or, as you mention, if one end has a very low battery connected which is against the USB spec and will cause things to fail) then you are at minimum being rude to the cable, rude to other devices on the USB tree and a regular USB cable would not be very happy. The Corning 3.Optical cable has a very small gauge so it might be happy to have 5V on one end and not the other or it might not like it. At the minimum it makes me wonder if, say, when the source is powered off and the battery is still there on the end that you might end up shorting the battery thru the cable causing the battery to run down more quickly than it should (since no one is drawing any power from the battery on a correctly functioning system a battery should last years and years (at least 10 given a modest Alkaline these days.) Since I don’t have schematics for everything in your system and know when you are plugging and unplugging what this may all be wrong as well. But I’m explicitly not offering to help with other company’s products to break existing specs (e.g. USB) - I don’t know what else in the system might be affected or even if we help you, that someone else reading this might mess their systems up by trying to follow said advice.
Thx very much… some good insight there, but yes… this isn’t a controlled experiment so who knows.
I can see how usb spec would ask for both sides to be able to talk to each other precisely enough on when to autonomously switch their supplies on or off (hence the handshake concept) to keep things friendly. Me switching the receiving end’s battery supply off before (or after??) sleeping the server could have some long term detriment. Ultimately, perhaps it should always be the server that chooses when receiving power is shut down. This could be the cause of other people’s experience with Corning cable faults over a time. Maybe.
