DirectStream better without Uptone Regen?

You also seriously limit your sample rates with Toslink. It will depend if you think the sound is better anyways but may not play some or many files. Certainly not DSD files. Plus I am not sure if it actually limits the internal function of the DS. MR. Smith could say. It is not my preferred. Even though it has no electrical connection the bandwidth is too low. Plus there is a much bigger sound difference in cables. You are trading one thing for another. Depends on each person and their needs. Anyways you can do this with a mini DAC on Ebay for $20 or so. No need to spend $400.

However if anything, perhaps convert from USB to AES3 or I@S but you have not overcome the electrical connection. If that is your ultimate goal. Should not matter really. Since many things can Galvanically isolate the USB. Which does not use +5VUSB in the DS anyways other than for handshake and I have actually discovered it is working with no power on Redcloud! I did not even realize there was no power until I just started with this thread. The LPS was unplugged. With my setup it cannot pass +5VUSB from the computer. One other thing if you just want to try it, most modern computers have Toslink on the Motherboard and forgo USB altogether sounds better if that is what you wish to achieve.

Why not DSD? I do it all of the time. TOSLink can’t handle double rate DS, but single rate DSD works with many TOSLink cables of nominal or better quality. Also I question your assertion that TOSLink is more sensitive to cable quality, my experience and my expectation is that they are one of the least critical connections to a DS.

Many hubs and USB peripherals get their 5V power from the USB host connection and their 5V input is optional. Even without external power they supply power to their peripheral connections on their output(s).

“Since many things can Galvanically isolate the USB.” Not correct - isolating the ground is hard but isolating the 5V control (not the 5V power) is the real problem. Until recently most USB isolators did isolate 5V and ground, but they only handled USB Audio 1.0 (and hence only 96k max.) In that case you were definitely better off with TOSLink. You need to read the fine print on USB isolators to see that they do indeed handle USB 2.0 / High Speed.

I stand corrected. Maybe cables on the DS. In general many of these cables are just built all kinds of ways and may not even communicate on many devices. Again, only experience with other devices. I did not know it could do 2x DSD. My bad. I also did not know it is not isolating it. Is multi strand glass better than POF? I would love to know about that! So much BS in this industry but I feel you and MR. McGowan have proven yourselves extremely trustworthy. It is unheard of to not be selling snake oil in this industry! PSA is always my go to choice. I have your gear going back to the mid 90’s. Fantastic then, fantastic now. What I have mentioned above I thought would break the connection? Or am I misinformed? I mean what I am using with USB. I trust whatever you say and appreciate that you have been talking to me.

One thing, MR. Smith. Could you perhaps do me a huge favor and look at the “stumped” thread of mine. My DS died after just 76 days. It finally came back after many force reloads but now no screen and I have tried everything. This, of all things is kind of really important to me. I did not mean to cross post but wondered if you had seen it? Thank you, Todd

My (cheap) multistranded AudioQuest TOSLink glass cable works well, but my cheaper clad single fiber plastic works fine too. I have some cheapo TOSLink cables that only do 96k reliably. I also have one TOSLink (and one coax) that do 176.4k fine but not 196 :slight_smile: As a point of clarification you said “Certainly not DSD files.”, I replied “TOSLink can’t handle double rate DS, but single rate DSD works with many TOSLink cables…”, and then you said “I did not know it could do 2x DSD.” If you were referring to TOSLink in the last quote, TOSLink can’t do double rate DSD, but it often can do single rate fine.

I read all posts here and when I don’t respond to it’s because someone else has (or I know they will) respond well or its something I have no direct experience or control over. The problems you are having with your DS aren’t related to any part of it that I worked on (they are either the main power supply, the control/display processor or it’s code.) I designed (any laid out) the digital and analog cards and programmed the FPGA.

Yes, I typed that without thinking what you just said and I knew. I sometimes want to play a 2x DSD file. I thought only AQ’s Diamond is actual quartz glass. I have 2 lengths. The receiver cannot handle 2x DSD but I have a feeling that cable might. Just a wild guess. Many Engineers feel POF is actually superior but every “Audiophile” wants true glass ones. As in silica sand. Being science based anything should work unless it is some junk. Which oddly enough is often the $800 glass ones lol. That is why I was asking because I know you deal with actual science. I have no doubt that no electrical connection may very well be superior for obvious reasons. The same reason we are trying to isolate the USB. I will try a few I have. Have not used them in a while. I even can do USB to Toslink but not sure how good that is. Probably Toslink right from computer, no USB forgo all this expensive conditioner/isolator stuff. I even run a Sotm USB card. Toslink I would gather can come right from the motherboard just fine? Worth a shot. TBH, I do not have very many 2x DSD files anyhow.

I apologize for having speculated you did not see that post. I thought you built the whole thing even the case! I have little understanding of how manufacturing or electronics fab works. Stupid of me to think not more than one person is involved. Like then why would they need a marketing and sales Dept. Sometimes I speak/type too fast without thinking. I do think you would agree the only chance I may have is let the Eprom or NVM in their drain. Not putting words in your mouth though. Well, I figure it is my only chance. Flashing the FPGA should have nothing to do with this. However the FPGA data was initially corrupt as well. This occurred when I installed an incorrect driver for a similar device on the USB bus of this machine. So you can estimate what has happened. I just thought you would be interested that’s all. My dumb luck. The driver worked great on the device, took out a $1,500 printer and the DS. If I am guessing right or just a coincidence. I do not mean to badger you though.

One weird thing might interest you. I can set Foobar or Jriver to 8x DSD input and the DS operates fine. I thought it is only 2x input? Therefore I am assuming it is ignoring it or these programs are not actually sending that much data. That is whopping bandwidth. Likewise it accepts Asio at 32 Bit just fine(not padded).
I am sure it is not actually playing that back but find it odd for whatever reason. I would know for sure if I set it on a Toslink cable. I mean whether it is the DS ignoring it or the programs are not in fact sending that much data.

One last thing, I think coax or AES3 192 or 352 and 4x DSD? Don’t quote me, probably wrong about that too :):grin:

Based on Ted and other’s recommendation I also tried Toslink and discovered that it beat my $500 usb cable regen combo.

All for less than $100 (toslink converter was around $50 and had a decent DS labs toslink that was connected to my TV that worked well.

Haven’t tried DSD yet but I’d be willing to bet it’ll beat all other input\cable combos no matter the cost.

Seems it’s also sounds better with other digital inputs disconnected.

Worth a shot - can always switch back to USB for 2xDSD if that’s an issue…

The DS displays what sample rate and sample width it’s getting (the Bridge display is more complicated). It measures the sample rate and looks at how many low bits are changing to report the sample width. The USB and I2S inputs can go to 352.8k. The AES3, S/PDIF (and sometimes TOSLink) inputs can go to 192k. TOSLink is nominally 96k. The Bridge currently tops out at 192k. Single rate DOP is wrapped in 176.4k PCM, double rate DSD in 352.8k, hence double rate DSD only works thru the I2S and USB inputs of the DS.

in recent versions of foo_input_sacd there is a separate DSD processing menu in foobar2000, you can configure it to convert PCM to DSD, DSD to PCM and/or convert sample rates. I have it set to convert greater than double rate DSD to double rate DSD and leave everything else alone.

JRiver can do all of the expected PCM sample rate conversion, but I’m not sure how you configure it to do DSD -> DSD sample rate conversion, tho I wouldn’t be surprised if it did it somehow.

There is a new USB packet format that can support higher than double rate DOP and higher than quad rate native DSD, but the DS doesn’t currently support it. FWIW There are also some DACs out there that use two combined AES3 inputs to handle double rate DSD.

Indeed it had said 24/192. I have a feeling 8x is not even active in those programs. I used the menu you speak of in Foobar set to 512. Or DS just ignored it. Do not remember if it said DSD before the screen locked. Just remember 24/192. No problem it does what it is supposed to :blush: It is currently off until 2pm tomorrow and hope for the best. Trying this, you would not suggest I power it any sooner would you? I know it is not your part but I am sure you know stuff like that. I mean let all energy go from all caps etc. What I am hoping works. Maybe wishful, will see.

Multiple people have reported that overnight is occasionally needed to blow it’s nose. I’m sure a little less time is sufficient, but the difference doesn’t really matter.

Pretty much what I guessed. Thank you. Satellite DVR same thing.

One thing I thought worth mentioning. Above there was speak of Mains box. I would not mess with that unless you are sure you know how. It will not hesitate to finish the unwitting.

Soon as working, I will try Toslink and USB to Toslink. Strange thing companies like AQ have strong preference of Spdif/AES3. Being their much higher end cable lines. I would tend to listen to you though. At least CD can go on Tos for sure. Redbook is only 16/44.1 anyhow.

Here you are.:wink:

Could you please advise what exactly the USB toslink converter I should get? Thanks.

Your mileage may vary and there are limitations with DSD playback. Cheap fun tweak though…

1 Like

Out of context this is a pretty funny statement.

Received the USB-Toslink converter from China last night, plugged it in between my MELCO-N1A and DSj DAC. It did not work. Any trouble-shooting suggestion? Does it matter what kind of Toslink cable ? I am using the Audioquest forest toslink cable. I tried music files with different format, flac, wav, dsf. Thanks.

It’s powered by the USB connection so make sure the led is lit when connected. If not try another USB cable to see if there’s an issue with the 5v output from your USB cable.

Yes, the led was showing red. A naive question, should I see any light from the end of the toslink cable? Thanks.

Make sure you switch input to toslink from usb if that’s not it swap out the cables. Start with USB cable.

Make sure the toslink to the DSJ has that firm solid click. I notice the cable holds but needs full click to have the laser alignment.
I used a generic audioquest toslink and generic usb (make sure under 5m). Ensure your source sees the device.

Thanks both. Unfortunately, still did not work. I will go buy a different generic toslink cable to try. I also tried to use the coaxial output from the converter, didn’t work. Maybe something to do with how my Melco N1A send the signal through USB? However, it works perfect when the USB cable was directly connected to DSJ.