Roninaudio saidHey!! You took a picture of my pre!! That's my color too!! :)That red is sweet Mr. lonson… Cary has a tinge of that too (below).
I looked long and hard at that one timm… This may sound silly to some but aesthetics matter. If it looks like a kluge or worse, I don’t care who makes it or who reviewed it…Your’s looks awesome and I bet sounds great too.
In short gents, The new addition of the pre has added a “wow” factor = to the wow I got when I went from the GCD to the DSD. I think the Cary fits really well and if of high quality and design but it’s not a BHK, Ayre or Claypso. I think in my system at least, a pre was just flat needed. And like lon, the difference is dramatic. I spent from 1000 to 1600 yesterday just listening to music. Everything from Roon hi res to Spotify (I’m discovering a lot of new music w/ Spotify).
Why this is the case I don’t exactly know but after reading multiple posts here i.e. Pauls and lons, I wanted to try this. Not a lot of $$ invested but the improvement is dramatic. The common term “Your mileage may Vary” applies here but FYI OP. I’m back between 8 (Grail) and 10 (Nirvana) again…
Thanks for the help…
I think most would agree that part of the “wow” of the BHK Pre is the contribution of the tubes in the pristine, virtually distortion-free circuitry. Tubes give a character that most people like, and that character can be “seasoned to taste” through tube rolling. The other “wow” is for systems that may benefit from the Pre in the chain for system-specific reasons. It all boils down to your system and your ears.
Agreed. Also I may of found a sweet spot on the 700s too. Sounds like multiple good choices from PSA based on preference, budget and “ears”.
The latest 700 review is pretty impressive.
Set up side by side rather than stacked, and sitting on IsoAcoustics Orea Audio Equipment Isolators, the Stellar M700s came ever so close to matching the sound of my high-end reference monoblocks, Theta Digital’s Prometheuses—which are ranked Class A in “Recommended Components” and, at $12,000/pair, cost four times as much as the PS Audios. The Stellar M700 is an outstanding bargain.
Nice to know that so many others are experiencing the same audio wackiness that I do sometimes.
When I listen to my system with my Cary SLP98, I think–oh, how beautiful that sounds. Then when I listen to same recording with it out of the loop and just the DSD preamp, I think–oh, how beautiful that sounds. The Cary definitely gives a warm, can I say, romantic sound? It’s gorgeous.
But the DSD is still warm but much more detailed. It’s also gorgeous. So they both sit there available to me. Usually I prefer red. But sometimes I’ll have white. Nice to have a choice.
Oh–one more thing to complicate my previous comments (and surely make them even less useful) I should mention that the interconnects from the Cary to the amp are Kimber RCA and between the PSAudio and the amp are ZU Event balanced…so I don’t really know what difference I’m hearing.
RonP. What do you have the volume set at on your DSD when u are hooked to your Cary?
I have been blowing a fuse in the power supply in my 98 and am trying to figure it out. I think it is somehow going to be related to the DS - but am continuing to test one thing at a time.
When I use the Cary, I find that turning the Cary volume control wide open and controlling final volume with the DSD gives me better sound. I’m assuming this is telling me that the DSD volume control is better than the Cary pot. Can’t imagine the volume level would blow a fuse no matter which is used as master volume.
If you are controlling the volume with the DAC (DSD) and not with the preamp, why is the preamp needed at all? I though the purpose of the preamp was for volume control (among others), sending a fixed volume (maximum volume) from the DAC? No?
That’s how I use it–when I use it, which is rarely. But when I do use the Cary, the signal path is still from the Cary to the amplifier.
Right now, as I’m working, I’m listening to a Paul Desmond cd–a recording done in 1963 using just the DSD and it’s warm and articulate and wonderful. If I hadn’t owned the Cary for nearly 20 years, I wouldn’t feel the need for one.
Maybe this also has a lot to do with our speakers? That extensive detail mentioned above was too much for the Dyna C1’s. I have since added a Cary SL-100 and things got immediately better. However I also jumped off the Dyn ship as I saw no further room to grow as I suspected the Confidence series and up would produce similar results.
I never even thought (not that it’s wrong) of using the DAC as a volume control. What sounds best previously was DAC at 90, Use Cary as volume control. With my new speakers even though the sensitivity is the same (87db) all seems better with attenuation “out” and volume at 100. I have zero noise issues so I figured why use attenuation. The Cary gets to about a level 10 for nite, 20 for average and 40 for “BTO”.
Well I will report back once I have my issue solved. I had my 98 direct coupled and it sounds really good. I have yet to do the a/b yet to direct to amp. I thought the DS direct sounded great as well. So I will have to compare and see where I’m at.
timm saidRonP. What do you have the volume set at on your DSD when u are hooked to your Cary?
I have been blowing a fuse in the power supply in my 98 and am trying to figure it out. I think it is somehow going to be related to the DS - but am continuing to test one thing at a time.
Wanted to get back on this for a sec - my issue is in no way related to the DS. Glad of that.
Ok so I think I had a bad tube in my phono stage. Waiting for new tubes. However I can play the DS thru my linestage.
My slp98p has Chinese tubes in the 6sn7s - which will be upgraded soon. However when it went down - I went direct to my amp with the DS and whoa - bye bye sub. No need for it. Upper extension was noticed too. I was floored. I was expecting a bit on the thin side - and I got this robust , full, ballsy sound going direct!!
So I sent the pre to Cary for the fix and thought hmm might as well consider upgrades. They have fairly affordable upgrades - so they talked me into direct coupling it - and it made sense based on what paul has said and the output impedance swings at low frequency based on JAs measurements inStereophile. My amp only has 24kohm input impedance. The Cary is listed at 440ohm impedance but swings up to 6k at low frequency.
I also had the diode/hexfreds upgrade in the power supply.
Well jury is in and this sweet little pre is staying!! Doing an a/b to DS direct - it improved or met all frequency extremes and had that tube body that gives the strings the texture I love. Music had more body and flow.
The upgrade was well worth it. Went thru some pain with my debugging effort with the initial problem but - in the end it sounds way better than stock in my opinion.
Cant wait to get some nice 6sn7s.
So chalk this up as a winner with the DS vs direct.
Excellent report, good to hear you have things sorted out.
My experience working with Cary has been excellent as well.
I agree on the upgrades. Mine was upgraded to the “F1” version and it was money well spent.
If you can find nos Pope 6sn7’s you will be in heaven; fabulous sounding tube.
Re the Popes. I know upscale only sells to people that purchased from them. Any alternatives ? Sylvania always gets talked about. CBS Hytrons?
You’re stretching my very sketchy memory but I’ve tried many over the years and I remember being very happy with the Sylvania’s.
I also very much liked the Brimars but I don’t think you can get them anymore. Tubes are fun, huh?
I have the Popes in one of my tubed headphone amps. They are indeed wonderful.