# DSD 128 conversion to DSD 64? **URL:** \ **Category:** DACs\ **Created:** [September 17, 2019, 3:00am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/dsd-128-conversion-to-dsd-64/12947 "2019-09-17T03:00:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![crabby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@crabby](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/crabby)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 3:00am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/dsd-128-conversion-to-dsd-64/12947/1 "2019-09-17T03:00:37Z")
I know this has been covered before but i’m confused. What is the best software to downconvert DSD 128 down to DSD 64? I’m not looking to convert to pcm, i only want to convert to DSD 64. ---
**Author:** ![dvorak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6de8d8/32.png) [@dvorak](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/dvorak)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 3:58am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/dsd-128-conversion-to-dsd-64/12947/2 "2019-09-17T03:58:52Z")
Permanently? Streaming? On which operating system or device? ---
**Author:** ![crabby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@crabby](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/crabby)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 4:05am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/dsd-128-conversion-to-dsd-64/12947/3 "2019-09-17T04:05:11Z")
windows and permanently. I’d like to be able to play them back via the bridge. ---
**Author:** ![panostar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@panostar](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/panostar)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 6:33am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/dsd-128-conversion-to-dsd-64/12947/4 "2019-09-17T06:33:30Z")
TASCAM Hi-Res Editor is excellent. ---
**Author:** ![efete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@efete](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/efete)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 8:39am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/dsd-128-conversion-to-dsd-64/12947/5 "2019-09-17T08:39:50Z")
I will second that. And if you’ve got any DSD128 files that are .DFF, the conversion to DSD64 .DSF was -albeit a tad slow- really good in my experience. ---
**Author:** ![jazznut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jazznut](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/jazznut)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 9:12am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/dsd-128-conversion-to-dsd-64/12947/6 "2019-09-17T09:12:18Z")
Tascam hires editor and Korg Audio Gate. The Tascam can’t do batch conversion, Korg can (and meanwhile even supports DSD256 as Tascam already did). Both convert without -6dB drop and interim PCM conversion (which all other converters I got to know don’t) ---
**Author:** ![crabby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@crabby](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/crabby)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 9:33am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/dsd-128-conversion-to-dsd-64/12947/7 "2019-09-17T09:33:55Z")
Thank you! So not much (if any) degradation in sound? ---
**Author:** ![jazznut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jazznut](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/jazznut)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 2:32pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/dsd-128-conversion-to-dsd-64/12947/8 "2019-09-17T14:32:09Z")
I’m quite sure those two are the best converters, but to be honest, as I can’t play higher than DSD64 with the Bridge, I have no comparison. ---
**Author:** ![MariusP](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/mariusp/32/7623_2.png) [@MariusP](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/MariusP)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 10:57pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/dsd-128-conversion-to-dsd-64/12947/9 "2019-09-17T22:57:23Z")
Why not using Roon to downsample? ---
**Author:** ![crabby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@crabby](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/crabby)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 1:49pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/dsd-128-conversion-to-dsd-64/12947/10 "2019-09-18T13:49:00Z")
Don’t use roon. Plus doesn’t it use pcm in its downconverting? ---
**Author:** ![dvorak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6de8d8/32.png) [@dvorak](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/dvorak)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 4:04am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/dsd-128-conversion-to-dsd-64/12947/11 "2019-09-20T04:04:49Z")
Once you get to high enough sampling rates, the reason for distinguishing between PCM and DSD pretty much goes away. Even inside the DS DAC, all inputs including DSD get mapped onto a ~56MHz 50-bit sample space which if you look at one way is PCM yet in the frequency domain is still entirely recognisable as DSD if that’s what the input was. It truly doesn’t matter at this level. I don’t know for sure but I would be surprised if any DSD rate conversion could be done without the waveform being temporarily represented in a high res “PCM-like” format – other than by doing actual DSD playback to analog and then re-recording in the new DSD sampling rate. ---
**Author:** ![tedsmith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/tedsmith/32/96626_2.png) [@tedsmith](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/tedsmith)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 4:53am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/dsd-128-conversion-to-dsd-64/12947/12 "2019-09-20T04:53:28Z")
Some of the earlier DSD sample rate converters used their built-in convert, say, DSD64 to DXD (32/352.8k) and then converted that DXD to, say DSD128. Doing the conversion correctly (skipping DXD) in the highest sample rate can temporarily have some wide registers and use many bit adds, but doesn’t really ever need to generate PCM anywhere, just 5, 6 or 7 weird intermediate integrator values which wouldn’t look a lot like the input signal if interpreted as PCM. I think Roon, JRiver MC, etc. are now doing credible on the fly conversions from one DSD rate to another. But my advice is still to try what you think might be the best conversion path, but also try converting DSD to, say, 24/176.4 and feeding that to the DS - I know that that will sound better than some converters out there but what really matters is which you want to listen to. ---
**Author:** ![dbanker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/96bed5/32.png) [@dbanker](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/dbanker)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 5:08am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/dsd-128-conversion-to-dsd-64/12947/13 "2019-09-20T05:08:46Z")
On a different note…which one (64 or 128) sounds better? I’m upsampling to 128 right now but also have the option of 64. Any thoughts on why one might prefer one over the other? ---
**Author:** ![tedsmith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/tedsmith/32/96626_2.png) [@tedsmith](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/tedsmith)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 6:06am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/dsd-128-conversion-to-dsd-64/12947/14 "2019-09-20T06:06:19Z")
Probably 128, 64 is near the edge: 128 has another octave for filtering so the ultrasonic noise doesn’t have to grow as soon or as high. I wouldn’t upsample 64 to 128 outside the DS (but, hey, if you like the sound better, go for it.) ---
**Author:** ![jazznut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jazznut](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/jazznut)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 8:33am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/dsd-128-conversion-to-dsd-64/12947/15 "2019-09-20T08:33:06Z")
Ted, Jriver etc. (other than Korg & Tascam) still ad the -6dB when converting between DSD rates, so I assume it still goes over PCM? Do you say downconverting DSD 128 or 256 to 24\176 is better on the DS (for Bridge use) than downconverting it to DSD64 with e.g. the same Korg/Tascam? I wonder why but that’s interesting and worth a try. ---
**Author:** ![tedsmith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/tedsmith/32/96626_2.png) [@tedsmith](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/tedsmith)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 2:21pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/dsd-128-conversion-to-dsd-64/12947/16 "2019-09-20T14:21:16Z")
I don’t know if the -6dB is the kiss of death or not. They are worth a listen, rather than just ruling out out of hand. Converting DSD to PCM is a fundamentally simpler and possibly less “lossy” process than DSD to DSD. So if the loss in going to 24/176.4 is less than the conversion to DSD loss (even if using a higher PCM rate) you might get better sound - it depends on your preferences and the quality of the -\> DSD process (no matter whether DSD -\> DSD or PCM -\> DSD. ---
**Author:** ![jazznut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jazznut](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/jazznut)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 3:10pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/dsd-128-conversion-to-dsd-64/12947/17 "2019-09-20T15:10:31Z")
Thanks Ted, that’s very interesting and good to know! So if you say downconverting DSD128+ to 24/176.4 is the best choice when playing over the DS/Bridge (better than DSD64 or 24/192), then that’s the way to go for me now (without having to compare my ass off between formats, as I hate smallish comparisons 😜 ) ---
**Author:** ![tedsmith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/tedsmith/32/96626_2.png) [@tedsmith](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/tedsmith)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 3:16pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/dsd-128-conversion-to-dsd-64/12947/18 "2019-09-20T15:16:49Z")
Yep, at the levels of differences we are talking about personal preference trumps technical details. When I’m listening personally I don’t care about differences this small if the music is still involving. ---
**Author:** ![jazznut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jazznut](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/jazznut)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 4:25pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/dsd-128-conversion-to-dsd-64/12947/19 "2019-09-20T16:25:07Z")
Two more thoughts Ted: It will be interesting if Korg/Tascam do the DSD-PCM downconversion (they also support it) without … and Jriver/Roon etc. with the -6dB effect (I never tried). Of if there’s always a loss of -6dB in DSD-PCM conversion. The other thing is: when labels offer e.g. their DSD256 recordings in different lower DSD formats. Would you also say their DSD downconversion is inferior to a home brewed DSD-PCM downconversion? ---
**Author:** ![tedsmith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/tedsmith/32/96626_2.png) [@tedsmith](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/tedsmith)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 5:49pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/dsd-128-conversion-to-dsd-64/12947/20 "2019-09-20T17:49:10Z")
-6dB is a good thing in DSD -\> PCM (-4 is sometimes necessary, but -6dB is completely safe) When going from DSD to DSD it’s not necessary - the intermediate values do need to keep the extra bits tho. I don’t know how many do a conversion from DSD to DSD without going thru PCM. Some SDM’s would require going thru PCM, but not all do. Pro’s often have better conversions available than the consumer market, also some have the equipment to do simultaneous conversion from the last analog stage to multiple resolutions of DSD. [Next page](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/dsd-128-conversion-to-dsd-64/12947.md?page=2)