Heartbroken: Unhappy with the sound of my new DS Sr

I have listened with and without a preamp. Both a BHK preamp and much more expensive preamps. I WANTED it to sound as good or better with no preamp. I would have saved $10,000 or more. It did not. It sounded very clean, very transparent but it lacked dynamics, it didn’t sound “real.”

Every time I try and take a shot at getting rid of a preamp I always end up at the same place. I am not an engineer, I can’t tell you WHY it sounds better but IMHO it always does.

It’s nice to know but it doesn’t really matter why. I’m sure we’ve all spent a lot of $ on things that improved the sound of our systems and we couldn’t always explain why. Preamps can be a sore spot for a lot of people. Maybe because those that have moved on from analogue also moved away from preamps as their DAC’s have a volume control. I can understand not wanting to go back - even if it sounds better in many if not most cases.

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Yeah like a $3500 Synergistic Atmosphere XL RF Generator. Someone explain to me how something outside of the chain of electronics can change the characteristics of the room by generating a radio frequency field? Dumbest thing I had ever heard…

But it is simply AMAZING in its effect and is probably the best money I have ever spent on my system. BTW, I recommend it whole-heartedly to those that can swing it.

In my system the BHK preamp did not add anything. Perhaps because I have an active crossover, I don’t really know. This went against my hopes and expectations.

As we’ve said so many times you really have to try things out yourself.

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I never said they WERE audible. Someone else did. I said I listen at 88-95 and my system sounds great.

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I’m Heartbroken over this thread all over again. It’s like arguing politics with your relatives at Thanksgiving. It can spoil a good time ; )

The Pre/No Pre debate seems to be an objectivist/subjectivist debate to a fair degree, and we know how those go.

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Elvis has left the building…

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All I know is there is a massive difference in sound quality when I remove my preamp from my 2 channel system and use the DirectStream to control volume. It’s not even subtle…

The objectivist in me hates this. But all of my 40 plus years of experience tells me that active preamps sound better than passive preampsand my tube-based preamp make my 2 channel system sound MUCH better than relying on my DAC for volume control.

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Sorry - confused here. Sounds like your 40 years of subjective experience tells you preamps are better - except in this case? And are you talking about two different systems? One sounds better with your tube pre and another does not?

When I say “objectivist” in this context, it would be the view that “less is better”/closer to straight wire with gain, and so on. That would appear to be why many don’t want to add another device and set of cables, as, taken purely objectively as a mental exercise in advance of experience of a given system, that can only add distortion/be less transparent.

EDIT: Or in the first sentence you’re saying it sounds Worse? Maybe that’s what I’m missing. Then it all makes sense ; )

It’s really more non-believer (whatever the reason) than objectivist – unless you actually tried it and found you preferred the sound without the preamp. Objectivist would imply you have some empirical evidence that lead you to a conclusion – if not the better word would be ignorance. But really at this point I’d say this conversation has fallen more in the category of “who cares”. I’m in the preamp camp but I’m not into conversation therapy.

Yeah - this Horse is Dead for sure ; )

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What happened to the heartbroken guy?

Well, if you’re talking about me, I’m Heartbroken because my Horse is dead. If you mean the OP, he likely wins the prize for greatest amount of Post generation on multiple topics with the least input. Kinda thinking back to RayK’s post early on that suggested the topic might be fake news…; ). On the other hand, he may just have a full time job, etc.

I’m thinking of starting a thread with “Devastated” in the title, then (insert beloved PS device of choice)…

You know even a seasoned audiophile can be set back on his/her pins by some of the reactions we have to new and changing gear or among many of us now changing firmware.

When systems get to a certain point and with such musical sources as we are using it seems everything can matter, and then our own custom blend of everything matters to us. And as a result we have developed systems that reflect what we want, whether we value science or audio magic, and we’re always right in our choices, as they are more about taste and ergonomics than science and audio magic.

Or that’s my stance, now, today. I think the OP figured out what to do for his system.

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I think the OP was just trying to start an audio food fight – mission accomplished…

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It’s only a food fight if you participate in such matters… Life is way too short to let things bother me much in an opinionated audio forum. Whatever works best for you…is the bottom line. Enjoy the music!

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An objectivist would tell you a preamp is unnecessary because all it can do is make the signal worse. I say that my current tube-based preamp in my 2 channel system is far superior to using the DirectStream without it.

Indeed. It’s difficult to use simple logic when the understanding is less is more. Our goal in high end audio is to do as little damage as possible and it seems that adding a component such as a preamp would only make things worse, yet that’s simply not the case.

There are a number of theories flying around but I have yet too settle on one I buy without too much argument. I am working on some theories of my own but for now the fact that a preamp of a certain quality is better on most systems than the DAC straight in still stands as irrefutable. It only takes a 30 second listen to confirm this.

The fact that it defies logic and our belief system not withstanding.

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If the OP was trolling and hoped to start a fight on this forum he failed miserably. While we are engaged in a vigorous discussion, it has remained civil. :slight_smile:

Agreed. My thing from the get-go, preceeding my current level of audiophilia, was based on using pro gear, mics, mic pre’s, line amps, etc. Gain staging has always been a part of that world. It’s not a question - more of a fact of life, and if I doubted, it was proven to me over and over. I think it only gets more important the more high end your gear is.