# Help me understand and select a PCM filter - Mark Levinson 5100 **URL:** \ **Category:** DACs\ **Created:** [May 29, 2021, 9:42pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/help-me-understand-and-select-a-pcm-filter-mark-levinson-5100/24194 "2021-05-29T21:42:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![onehorsepony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b5ac83/32.png) [@onehorsepony](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/onehorsepony)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2021, 9:42pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/help-me-understand-and-select-a-pcm-filter-mark-levinson-5100/24194/1 "2021-05-29T21:42:09Z")
my cd player, mark levinson 5100, has 7 PCM filters: fast minimum phase slow minimum phase apodiz fast hybrid fast minimum phase brickwall fast linear slow linear I’m unfamilair with the concept of PCM filters. Would any of these settings take the edge off of my issue of brightness? ---
**Author:** ![cxp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71c47a/32.png) [@cxp](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/cxp)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2021, 10:20pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/help-me-understand-and-select-a-pcm-filter-mark-levinson-5100/24194/2 "2021-05-29T22:20:42Z")
Slow linear would be my recommendation. ---
**Author:** ![onehorsepony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b5ac83/32.png) [@onehorsepony](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/onehorsepony)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2021, 10:25pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/help-me-understand-and-select-a-pcm-filter-mark-levinson-5100/24194/3 "2021-05-29T22:25:09Z")
May I ask why? I really don’t know and would like some background knowledge ---
**Author:** ![cxp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71c47a/32.png) [@cxp](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/cxp)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2021, 11:59pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/help-me-understand-and-select-a-pcm-filter-mark-levinson-5100/24194/4 "2021-05-29T23:59:11Z")
Someone else with super deep knowledge can come in and add on top of my response. (1) There is a gentle roll off in the high frequencies… somewhere around 19-22khz will be down a touch… like 0.5db to 2db would be reasonable to expect so very subtle (2) Reduced ringing of the slow filter which can provide a more relaxed sound (3) Slight aliasing - high frequency noise from the up sampling in DAC will bleed into audio band. ---
**Author:** ![Serhan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/serhan/32/192329_2.png) [@Serhan](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/Serhan)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2021, 3:02pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/help-me-understand-and-select-a-pcm-filter-mark-levinson-5100/24194/5 "2021-05-30T15:02:33Z")
Roon knowledge base has some info that I found useful: > **[DSP Engine: Sample Rate Conversion](https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/dsp-engine-sample-rate-conversion)** > > Overview Most people using the sample rate conversion features in Roon will be performing upsampling, which is generally considered to provide an enhancement. This effectively increases the resolution of the audio signal leaving Roon. Roon's sample... Please scroll down to compare linear with minimum phase. Personally, I prefer minimum phase as it sounds more natural in my system. ---
**Author:** ![onehorsepony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b5ac83/32.png) [@onehorsepony](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/onehorsepony)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 8:30pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/help-me-understand-and-select-a-pcm-filter-mark-levinson-5100/24194/6 "2021-06-18T20:30:56Z")
Ok… so this is what I’ve found thus far. I’ve gone back and forth on just two filters and can reproduce the same conclusions. HYBRID FAST MINIMUM PHASE I’ve found this filter to be very resolving especially on vocals. Allows any sibilance to be more prominent. However, after about an hour of listening, I start interpreting the filter as harsh/bright sounding, almost grating. Reducing the volume helps but removes the bass of the music I’m listening to FAST LINEAR This filters seems to calm the upper end down some, but at the same time feel like i’m losing some of the resolution in the vocals. Does any of these comments make any sense to anyone out here? Which one would you suggest to try next? thanks in advance… ---
**Author:** ![cxp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71c47a/32.png) [@cxp](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/cxp)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2021, 9:19pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/help-me-understand-and-select-a-pcm-filter-mark-levinson-5100/24194/7 "2021-06-18T21:19:55Z")
I would try fast min, slow min, and slow linear. One of these should hit the sweet spot. Also, turn off analytical brain and see which one gets you to keep listening and gets you moving. If the bass is a little lean but you love the flow of the music it’s a worthy trade off. ---
**Author:** ![onehorsepony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b5ac83/32.png) [@onehorsepony](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/onehorsepony)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2021, 11:22am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/help-me-understand-and-select-a-pcm-filter-mark-levinson-5100/24194/8 "2021-06-20T11:22:16Z")
UPDATE… so this is what I’ve found thus far. I’ve gone back and forth on now 3 filters and can reproduce the same conclusions. HYBRID FAST MINIMUM PHASE I’ve found this filter to be very resolving especially on vocals. Allows any sibilance to be more prominent. However, after about an hour of listening, I start interpreting the filter as harsh/bright sounding, almost grating. Reducing the volume helps but removes the bass of the music I’m listening to FAST LINEAR This filters seems to calm the upper end down some, but at the same time feel like i’m losing some of the resolution in the vocals. APODIZ FAST I thought this filter calmed the ‘sizzle’ down from the HYBRID FAST MINIMUM PHASE filter. Seemed to allow the system to be played at moderate and louder volumes eliminating any listener fatique. Thought this is a filter to consider. Had my wife listen to this filter on several recordings, A/B comparing it to the HFMP filter. She felt it made the sound more 2 dimensional, ‘deep’ sounding, un involving. Does any of this make any sense? Which one would you suggest to try next? thanks in advance… ---
**Author:** ![cxp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71c47a/32.png) [@cxp](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/cxp)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2021, 3:32pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/help-me-understand-and-select-a-pcm-filter-mark-levinson-5100/24194/9 "2021-06-20T15:32:27Z")
Ok, go Linear Slow ---
**Author:** ![cxp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71c47a/32.png) [@cxp](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/cxp)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2021, 3:33pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/help-me-understand-and-select-a-pcm-filter-mark-levinson-5100/24194/10 "2021-06-20T15:33:13Z")
I agree min phase filters remove bass… not good in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![cxp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71c47a/32.png) [@cxp](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/cxp)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2021, 3:42pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/help-me-understand-and-select-a-pcm-filter-mark-levinson-5100/24194/11 "2021-06-20T15:42:41Z")
Just FYI there are better DACs that sound way way better cause they use better filters. ---
**Author:** ![scotte1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/scotte1/32/147_2.png) [@scotte1](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/scotte1)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2021, 3:45pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/help-me-understand-and-select-a-pcm-filter-mark-levinson-5100/24194/12 "2021-06-20T15:45:53Z")
@Elk: FYI, there is a good discussion going on here about PCM Filters. I am afraid those that may be interested are unlikely to pick up on it buried in this “Audioquest Water XLR Interconnects” thread. If @onehorsepony and @cxp don’t mind, perhaps you could be troubled to move these posts and start a new thread? Just a suggestion… ---
**Author:** ![onehorsepony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b5ac83/32.png) [@onehorsepony](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/onehorsepony)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 10:52am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/help-me-understand-and-select-a-pcm-filter-mark-levinson-5100/24194/13 "2021-06-22T10:52:20Z")
Can’t seem to move this thread, tried putting this conversation in the DAC forum, but it got deleted. ---
**Author:** ![scotte1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/scotte1/32/147_2.png) [@scotte1](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/scotte1)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 11:06am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/help-me-understand-and-select-a-pcm-filter-mark-levinson-5100/24194/14 "2021-06-22T11:06:05Z")
It’s been moved (by @Elk) I believe you are now in a dedicated thread discussing PCM filters. Cheers. ---
**Author:** ![Elk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/elk/32/1240_2.png) [@Elk](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/Elk)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 2:08pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/help-me-understand-and-select-a-pcm-filter-mark-levinson-5100/24194/15 "2021-06-22T14:08:40Z")
This is your thread. Notice the title: _Help me understand and select a PCM filter - Mark Levinson 5100_ Notice the first post was made by you. And note it is in the DAC subforum. You are all set! ---
**Author:** ![onehorsepony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/b5ac83/32.png) [@onehorsepony](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/onehorsepony)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 7:15pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/help-me-understand-and-select-a-pcm-filter-mark-levinson-5100/24194/16 "2021-06-23T19:15:33Z")
Thanks, hope to get more input in the proper area now.