How to get on the PS Audio ladder

Thanks all for the suggestions. It’s interesting how an enquiry about amps immediately leads people to suggest upgrades to everything but the amp! :rofl:

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Well, I was focusing on bang for the buck – with the bang being the biggest improvement in the musicality and capability of your current system I could think of at your stated budget. To that end, I would not rule out using the digital output of your current CD player (assuming it has one or more) to feed a new, to you, PSA DSD.

That approach was my first venture into what I now believe to be the real promise of digitally based music sources.

As to transports, I don’t have a lot of experience. I used a 17-year old Denon DVD 2900 until very recently. (I bought a used PSA DMP from a fellow forum denizen some months back.)

The Audiolab recommendations being made are reflective of what seems to be a stellar reputation for their kit.

If I were you, I would try to get my hands on a DSD and see what it can accomplish with your current CD player. If your speakers have any capability at all, I think you will be shocked at what the DSD is capable of, based on where you are starting your journey.

Keep in mind that the DSD (with or without) the PSA Network Bridge card will also open up a path to playing digital files sans spinning discs. Its (networking digital files) a whole other can of worms but, depending on how you build out your system/signal chain, streaming digital files from a server or computer (I don’t mean the internet, per se) can easily surpass the capabilities of CD spinner.

Have fun.

Your suggestions (and those of everyone) are much appreciated. There’s always a chance one asks the wrong questions, or looks for a solution to the wrong problem.

If money was no object I’d try all the options, but one has to pick & choose and prioritise. I’ll mull it over :slight_smile:

If you have your heart set on buying the best amplifier you can afford at this juncture, just do it.

There is no single path to enjoying music and kit. It’s just that in my experience, I could not really benefit from better amplification (that is hear significant material differences) until I had better speakers and sources.

If you have great speakers, then a great amplifier will no-doubt offer some improvement.

Just keep in mind that an amplifier amplifies. It amplifies what you are producing from your current sources upstream of the amplifier. If you have any sense that your CD player and its built-in DAC are mediocre, then you new amplifier will be amplifying mediocrity.

Just a thought…

Yours truly,

Captain Obvious (?)

@hiace_drifter
I upgraded from some rather pedestrian gear to PS Audio recently. I ended up with a GainCell Dac/Pre-amp and a pair of M700 monoblock power amps. You might be happier with the Strata, their integrated amp. Like you are planning to do, I retained my old NAD CD player, but I now use it with the DAC in the Gaincell. RCA coax cable makes the combination sing (an Audioquest Toslink was good, but not as open sounding).

I’m happy to just play CDs (no intention to stream, or play ripped files, or SACD etc), and the rega was described as the “most musical cd player they’d ever heard” by one reviewer.

I had hoped to stick with Naim amps, but they were a terrible match for my speakers. I wanted to keep the latter as I got them cheaply and they’re hand made by someone who I respect greatly. I may be misguided but for now it’s just the amps I want to change. If I end up with a built in dac for later experimentation, so much the better.

Well @gazjam and I suggested speaking to Dave at MCRU (for an S300) or a trip to Richer Sounds for Audiolab or Cambridge Audio.

An obvious choice is the Rega Elicit-R integrated. All your problems solved for £1,650. A perfect match for your Saturn-R. It won the What HiFi best amplifier award about 3 or 4 years running. You may get a deal from the other Dave, Dave at Radlett Audio. He’s probably sold thousands of them.

John Westlake, who has designed several of these classic products for Audiolab, Cambridge Audio, Project and others, explains that it is almost impossible to make budget audio at competitive prices unless you manufacture in China. Never mind labour costs, the parts costs less than 10% of the price for exactly the same parts in the EU (or the USA). The S300 uses a B&O ICEPower amplifier made in Schenzen, China, where Audiolab is made (in IAG’s own shiny factory).

John Westlake is a great advocate of DSD. The PS Audio DSD will cost you almost £4,000. The MDAC+ costs £800. If the MDAC+ was made in the UK it would cost perhaps 3 times that. I owned one and it’s exceptionally good. The original MDAC won more awards than just about any modern product and the MDAC+ is better. The problem with DSD is that you will need an entirely new music collection, limited to what is available on DSD.

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My friend, I’m just pulling people’s collective leg, no intention to offend or criticise. It just made me smile, which to be honest is not a bad thing in current circumstances! Thanks for bringing John W to my attention, I shall do some more research. I feel like I have opened a (very interesting!) can of worms.

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Can open! Worms everywhere!

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John W really knows his onions, similar kinda guy to Ted knowledge wise, just specializing in different fields.

Best of luck with your pursuit. As others have suggested, there are any number of paths into the family. When you decide where your system is most lacking, look for possible replacements. Or pick a completely different approach. You’re the only valid judge of what will make you happy.

In my case, I’d just undergone a speaker and power amp upgrade (my first in about 20 and 40 years, respectively), and I thought my preamp was likely now the weakest link, and about that time a dealer was clearing out his PSA stock, so I picked up a SGCD. Less than a year later I was replacing that new amp with M700s, followed shortly by a P3 regenerator.

I’m happy as a clam, even with the knowledge that I’ll likely never be able to afford anything outside the “Stellar” line. And even with that admission, they still treat me like family around here, even if it means I have to sit at the kids’ table at Thanksgiving dinner. :wink:

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I don’t want to discard my Rega without some proper comparison. And I don’t want to buy an amp with built in dac until I know that is the route I want to take.

I actually have a dac (only a cambridge audio dacmagic100 but as a starting point would allow me to test a CD transport against my rega). Are there any top load transports? The audiolab looks perfect, apart from the fact it is slotload which I hate for some reason. Actually its because they always seem to involve getting fingers all over your disc!

Considering that this year will see the DS Sr MKII blossom, you will probably get a good price for the MKI, which is certainly a very successful DAC.

FWIW, I would prioritize upgrading to a better DAC over upgrading to a better transport, unless your current spinner is experiencing problems.

Ignore this post if I misinterpreted your post.

Please do keep us informed as to your next move.

Regards.

[PS, if you are not interested in SACDs, the PS Audio PerfectWave Memory Player is a very good spinner and it benefits from having the “digital lens” (buffer play) feature. These can be had for a great price (as compared to MSRP) on the used market. See here for more details:

I just had a look at the Saturn-R web page and it says:
“The Saturn- R has two optical inputs, two Co-Axial inputs, a fully asynchronous USB and an added ‘direct’ digital output from the CD playback section. This ensures the Saturn- R integrates perfectly into any system and provides the perfect partner for the Rega Elicit- R integrated amplifier.”

With budget £2.5k, it fits a SGCD pre/dac (with some money saved) or a Strata (with a little bit stretch to the budget). In my case, “get into PSA ladder” is more like “jump into a black hole”. I have SGCD/M700s (~USD $5k total) to replace the ARCAM Alfa 10 integrate. Reason why I pick M700s is due to it is Class D - use much less power vs the typical Class A/B, and PSA says it has tuned M700s to sound good. SGCD/M700s sound surprisingly good in my system. (My speaker is LINN KEILIDH + pair of JL Audio D110 sub). Initially, that should be it, no more new gears. However, it did not stop there. It is known that PSA voicing it gears with its power regenerator. So, anther ~$5k is sucked into the black hole for a P12. (I am in US, if I don’t like it, return in 30 days!) Another surprise, with P12, the music is cleaner. So, P12 stays. Then I need CD player to replace ARCAM CD 7SE, so another ~$5k+ DSDAC (with Sony DVD as transport). Then PST is finally out, another ~$5k++. With all these, now I am extremely happy with my system. Music never sound this good before. (Well, black hole is not disappeared yet. Might have SGCD replaced by BHK pre in the future, another $5k+)

Are the PerfectWave CD Transport and PerfectWave Memory Player one and the same?

Would one of those be overkill for purely CD use?

Would a coax cable into a DAC be sufficient (the I2S seems to be for hi-res audio?)

Yes.

No.

Try both and stick with what sounds best.

Good luck to you.

In sequence, PSA has these 3 Transports:
PerfectWave Transport (PWT) - oldest
Directstream Memory Player (DMP) - old
PerfectWave sacd transport (PST) - current

Cannot say anything on PWT / DMP, since I don’t own them. I have PST + DSDAC connect with hdmi/I2S, this pair is perfect to my ears.

If money was no object I’d go straight for PST / DSDAC … unfortunately I have to work my way up the ladder slowly :slight_smile: