Does the mass of a component reduce it’s sensitivity to isolation? For example, in my system, installing isolators under the DSD Sr has a substantial effect. But under my P20 or power amp (roughly 90 pounds) there’s no noticeable effect. The footers I’m using are well up to the weight of these components.
@RonP - I just ordered two sets (4) of Isoacoustic “Bronze” for my new BHK Preamp and PSA DS DAC, should arrive in JAN. I have not placed the P20 on isolation pads; or, the BHK250. When I go dual BHK300s I will place them on isolation pads. They will sit on the floor along side my rack instead of in the rack with a little room above like my BHK250. Did you place your DMP on isolation pads? If so, did it make a difference?
Interestingly, I thought the DMP was rather immune to isolation until I put VooDoo IsoPods under it, thanks to suggestion from Lonson. I used three and the improvement was very noticeable.
I’m waiting for a custom made rack, built by a local craftsman. It’s sized such that I can get back to using footers.
I’ve had Oreas and they were excellent. You should be happy with the Bronze.
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Vette is a long way off, trying to have fun with my other hobby to pass the time…
I’m going with (4) Isoacoustic “Bronze” pucks: BHK Pre, DS DAC, and DS DMP. These components are 22lbs (spec) each; you can get away with (3) “Bronze” pucks (8lb max ea); however, want to make sure they are laterally stable too… just want to be sure…
I’m using a VTI rack with very thick glass (220lbs per shelf). However, got carried away with fitting components perfectly instead of really accounting for good thermal footprint. I have backed up and adjusted my thoughts about the rack. I am reconfiguring it right now.
Vibrational isolation, done right, is a complex problem. I worked around (not really with) experts in the field. They were able to mathematically design concrete foundation masses for the motor/fan masses and rotational frequencies used in power plants. Consider that nearly all electrical components are mounted as cantilevers (like diving boards), so even inside a cabinet are much more subject to vibration than you might imagine.
Proper analysis starts with consideration of the floor (rigid/concrete or flexible/wood) and what’s underneath the flexible floor (open crawl space/construction of the floor itself). Next realize that increasing bearing stress (use of spikes) has no effect on vertical issues and very little on the horizontal. Almost all vibrational issues are due to low frequencies.
My associates would have pointed out that to work best footers should be "compliant matched’ to the mass of component in question (so it partially compresses under the weight of the piece). Like a shock absorber on a car. If it fully compresses there’s no travel left to resist vibration, but in the same way if it’s so stiff that it doesn’t compress some, it won’t resist vibration either. But that involves testing with the floor (if flexible) included - not easy.
I do appreciate that Isoacoustics have the %effect according to weight on their website. I am waiting on some bronze’s myself for my SGCD.
@cxp - I rearranged my VTI rack to make sure I included the Isoacoustic “Bronze” on the PSA Components: DAC, DMP, and Preamp. I’m adding another glass shelf (7.5in posts). The VTI is speced at 220lbs per shelf and I have weight tested the bottom shelf for the last 8 months w/ PSA P20…
At 22lbs per PSA component, the (4) Bronze pucks per component is the ticket. I moved the P20 up one shelf to allow the PSA 1m AC-12 to reach the PSA DS DMP. In doing that the preamp is about 20in vertical from the BHK250; modeled in VISO. I thought my (2) sets of 0.6m Nordost Valhalla 2 XLR cables were 23in (end to end), till I measured them at 30in. The 0.6m spec is the length after you make a generous radius. So, this configuration will work great.
Do you have a suggestion for an isolation table on top for the rest of the components.
What it looks like now:
I like having my BHK Preamp on the top shelf, which makes tube rolling a breeze.
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@elk - Busted! sorry…
Before any new isolation measures, before any new components, you absolutely MUST address the white feet under the subs. It is an essential next step… truly.
@fdreed - addressed already. Blu Tack
Why do you have to bring color into this?
@JeffofArabica - that was a good point on the REL subs. I addressed it the first time I saw them moving. I spent a lot of time getting the position right. The CEO of REL, John Hunter, recommended the Blue Tack. I was going to spend a lot of coin getting them right. Sometimes it is the little inexpensive additions that get it right. As an aside, he spent a lot of emails and time discussing speaker placement. He developed the master speaker placement process. He is a lot like Paul in that he just loves what he does and helping you get the best sound, even if you don’t buy the reference subs. Many emails on room acoustics. He helped the Sonus Faber master back in the early days of the Guareni series with bass. He knows my mains very well, albeit, a generation down the road. Just a really nice guy, same as Paul. A bonus: we got to talk Vette; he has a C1 too. Since I got bagged by Elk on wandering in this specific thread; thought I would end on a car note.
I think the mass of a component does influence the choice of effective isolation.
I don’t have a P20. I do have a P10, sitting on a PowerBase. I removed the OEM feet and can hear subtle differences between different isolation feet (I’ve used Herbies Audio Lab Tenderfeet and Iso-Cups, Aurios, Oreas and two styles of VooDoo Cable IsoPods). The effects are not as pronounced as with lighter components. I’ve settled on the newest style of VooDoo Cable IsoPods.
Just the other day, I received and installed AV Room Service high density EVPs under the one JL sub I’m currently using, and was surprised to have it get noticably louder. I mean, turned it down a solid “hour” or so, and it still may be a bit hot. I don’t think it was due to raising it (less than 2"). All I can think is that the floor was draining some of the sound. It is covered in fairly solid porcelain tile, and there’s a rug in between the sub and seating position, but not under the sub itself. Mysterious process
Whenever I used a sub, I preferred using this ASC subtrap under it. It does work as claimed and the sound improvement is without question.
Those are cool. Hard to say how much of their effect is from repositioning the sub vertically 18"+ away from the floor boundary - which is major in itself, and a good idea - and how much from the other properties of the device. Having noodled with subs a lot, I’m definitely not a corner-placement person, nor am I a two-at-opposite-points in the room guy.
Maybe I’ll try putting it up on a stand on the pads…
I’m in a new, much smaller space, and am still sorting out how to fit the gear in here. Want to get the (2) 12" JL’s In here instead of this single 10", but not sure where they would go, except possibly under the speakers, which isn’t necessarily ideal for several reasons ; )
These pads seem to be doing something - remains to be seen if it’s ultimately all good or not. About a third of the cost of the small Subtrap (for four of the smaller pads). Still scratching my head about the seeming level increase, but it also seems tighter. Could have bumped a knob in the process of setting it up on the pads. Have to do A/B’ing at some point, I guess…
Mark,They do take up some space… but so do the subs. The trick is the subtraps remove most of the floor boundary interactions and help with the 70hz room boom elimination. As the ad states,articulation and enhanced musicality is what they do best.