Maybe but in Japan it’s much more serious than mustard or Ketchup. There are chef’s that spend their entire lives learning how to make the perfect sushi. To sully it with a dose of soy and wasabi is an insult to a lifetime of learning.
Yes, it is astoundingly complex.
If I may chime in to represent the new Gain Cell DAC/preamp owners…
After taking delivery on M700s, I realized that my beloved Cary SLP-98 was not going to do the job: WAY too much gain=unacceptable noise, especially with 95dB sensitive speakers.
I already had a NuWave DSD DAC here which literally changed the way I listened to music. It’s that good, imo. And it was good out of the box.
It was a no-brainer that I was keeping the amps; they’re pretty good too. So I ordered the Gain Cell, thinking that the dac was the same or better than the NuWave. And I could always use the NuWave with the new preamp anyway, if it came to that.
Imagine my disappointment with the Gain Cell out of the box: oh, it was quiet all right but, frankly, that’s all it had going for it. It was raucous, screaming, shrill…well, maybe not THAT bad, but it was a downer…initially.
I’ve been running it pretty much continuously for the past two weeks and, as advised, the break-in process has transformed it into a VERY smooth, eminently listenable system.
Just today, I connected the NuWave DAC for a quick listen. The Gain Cell DAC has now surpassed it in every category.
The preamp section is getting “close” to the 6SN7 sound I’ve known for several years here. But, of course, it has its own unique signature…and it’s growing on me. I never expected it to duplicate the “tube sound.” But it is easy on the ears now. And I’m only two weeks in.
No regrets. Much joy.
Thanks for this very well written piece.
Glad you’re happy but don’t give that SLP98 away cheap. I’m pretty sure it’s only about 15 db line stage. I used one for at least a decade and it’s dead nuts quiet.
Order a pair of Rothwell attenuators and then you can still use the Cary.
The current production SLP 98 has 20 dB gain, per the Cary website. And I think my circa-1998 model may have even more gain than that. Its output impedance is a reasonably low 440 ohms.
The SLP 98 does have right/left channel “balance” pots which can be used to “attenuate” both channels to allow the master gain pot to have a more usable range. But, unfortunately, this method does nothing to attenuate noise…at least when paired with the M700s.
Over the years the SLP 98 has been used with various SS and tube amps with success…even with using vintage WWII tubes in its output position which aren’t the “quietest” option out there. (But they are the best-sounding.)
Could it be that The M700s have too much gain for the SLP 98? I suspect so.
what are some xlr cables you guys would recommend? currently using mogami gold xlr for DS JR. after reading this post just turned off the attenuator for the first time since getting this unit. with my rogue rh-5 i have more than enough power/volume to compensate. thanks for the advice thus far!
I’m using VooDoo Cable Stradivarius Amati which I think are fantastic cables, and I got them at a great price as factory demos, but still very expensive cables!
I’ve also used in my second system WireWorld Oasis 8 which are not as good a cable but a very good cable for the money imo.
latenight
What kind of price range are you thinking of for the IC’s and what length do you need?
i guess it just depends on what my options are? i was checking out better cables blue truth 2 as maybe a step up?
Morrow MA5’s are very very good.
Tempted to go for the MA7s to match my speaker cable in the future.
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MA3s and MA4s work nicely too.
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I have no problems with burned in with my PS audio equipment. I have an agreement with my dealer that I buy the store’s exhibition models, so I’m by far the burned in bob. As such, my PS products are new since I have the same warranty as the brand new products. My DS plays really nice, that’s probably the PS device I love most.
More Love Denmark
There is a BHK 250 more and one P10 on the other side
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I totally agree with how you assess your system and know when it’s right, or a piece of equipment is broken in. Not by analyzing bits and pieces, but when you’re totally blown away. I’m breaking in my second DMP and DAC, and although they sounded fine in the beginning, the more hours on them, the more I became engaged and Blown away by the music. At around 400 hrs, I’m now a pretty happy camper with the DMP and DAC Sr.
I remember the first go around with the original DMP and DAC Jr, it wasn’t until I had over 500, that I became totally enthralled with the music. At this point anymore improvement with the DAC Sr, will be more icing on the cake.
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That’s good to hear.
I only noticed the burn-in phenomenon when I bought my second DS, it just sounded so very HiFi-sh, going through the motions. When I switched to my first bought DS it drew me into the music whereas the new DS didn’t. I just kept playing it 24/7 and it took roughly 6 weeks to fully blend with DS1 that I couldn’t tell them apart. Same scenario when I fitted a new kit to one of the DS boxes.
Your system will keep on changing yet. But you are enjoying your music more just now so that’s great.
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I have less than 3 weeks time on the DAC and DMP at this point, and things are sounding wonderful. So good to know there’s still room for more improvement. Thanks.
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You’re welcome.
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Hello everyone. I am the new owner of the DSD and BHK pre and thought I’d share my experience, which I believe is a little different than some others and may contain a few unique observations.
What am I looking for from a system? I assume at this level that nothing should be immediately disqualifying -nothing harsh and fatiguing; the frequency response is not grossly misshapen (but I’m not worshipping at the alter of ruler flat either). I also expect that a cymbal sounds pretty much like a cymbal, a guitar a like a guitar… but I don’t dwell on these things -if I can’t tell if it’s a Martin or a Taylor I’m not going away in a huff…
Given no gross deficiencies, what do I need? First, I want each of the individual instruments (and vocals) within the musical piece to sound alive. That means each instrument individually must appear 3 dimensional (and not like a cardboard cutout) -note that this is separate from the dimensionality of the entire soundstage. To achieve this, I assume that the output must have sufficient clarity, detail, dynamic impact, and air or bloom (which is possibly related to decay). But I try not to focus on the building blocks (can too much detail, for instance, decrease the sense of sounding real), but the result -does it sound alive. The second most important characteristic I’d like my system to display is a reasonable degree of sound stage 3 dimensionality -it doesn’t have to be extremely wide and deep, just enough to give the illusion of live musicians in real space. I do like to feel the dynamic impact of the entire piece, but I’m not a slave to extreme (or extremely defined) bass response.
To the nitty gritty -initial impression:
So I put in the Bridge II, hooked everything up, updated to Red Cloud, made sure I had the latest Bridge firmware, and fired it up. I had read through the forum and expected a long burn in period might be necessary.
The good news was that nothing was immediately disqualifying. I had a WOW moment when I initially heard the level of detail -it was clearly better that my previous setup (a MacBook Pro as a roon core running into a Bel Canto Dac 3 running directly into a Bel Canto amp). Unlike some other posts, I thought the bass was fine. The next thing I noticed, though, was that the overall effect was of several cardboard cutouts lined up on a single plane, just behind the speakers, with a curtain draped over the whole shebang -yuck. No 3D instruments, no 3D soundstage, and a thick veil. I wouldn’t call the highs harsh, but maybe hard and metallic. Ok, disappointed underestimates my reaction by several orders of magnitude… but I had been warned.
So I left things burn while I was out of town for a 3 day weekend -we’re now at 75 hoursish:
The increased detail and fine bass remain, but everything else is improved a little bit, the veil was markedly reduced. I would say the sound had improved to very good, but still nowhere near the holographic presentation I was used to with the Bel Canto -thank god for the trial period!
Continued running 24/7 sometimes loaded with speakers sometimes not -75 to 200 hours:
This period was a bit of a roller coaster ride with 3 dimensionality and veiling -sound continued to improve little by little, but would periodically fall back to the 75 hour level. I am now concerned that outside the fall backs, the performance is starting to plateau…
At 250 hours:
My system woke up today. I went to bed with things stuck on the plateau and I got up to a new reality. Clear, airy, holographic, and musical. And something else -the bass. It turns out the bass was NOT fine before. I suppose I thought it fine because I have been listening to electrostatics for many years, but the bass was now well defined, well controlled, tuneful, and with a startling dynamic impact. I listened well into the night.
So I am very appreciative of all the information given here that encouraged me to stick things out when I was seriously concerned I had made an expensive mistake. Thank you.
I have a couple of other observations that may benefit new owners:
Most of my burn in and intermittent listening was at the same volume level. When I started making normal volume adjustments, I noticed the system would sometimes relapse into “plateau behavior” -the decrease in performance was over and above what one might expect from a mere level change alone. Interestingly, this decrease in performance only seemed to last a few hours -I’m wondering if each step of the “stepped attenuator” (not including the tube gain adjustment sections), requires its own burn in?
While preamp to power amp was always balanced, initially I had RCA between the DAC and pre. When I changed this connection to balanced there was a slight decrease in performance -I’m wondering if the balanced input of the preamp also needs its own burn in… I think I’m getting wise to this thing!
Oh, and for what it’s worth, I have had no issues at all with the Bridge, Roon, Tidal, and MQA.
Best
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