It is simple math or I wouldn’t be able to do it. What the multiplier is remains different for any company on earth due to every companies different structure and market.
The auto manufacturers are a great example. If they lost $10m on development of one model it just becomes part of the overhead and not a chargeback to the particular model. The price of the model in question is not driven by these costs.
They also use a simple multiplier of cost to manufacture as a basis for final cost and another markup for dealer parts departments able to survive on the repair part sales.
The speakers look great and one of the few that could tempt me away from my TAD CR1’s, (which work extremely well with the BHK300’s)
I was surprised that they will only go down to the low 30’s, which is the same as my TAD’s, which only have 1 8” woofer and a smaller cabinet.
I do use A pair of 10” servo subs with them and they turn the listening experience from one of more lifelike hifi’s heard, to what really sounds like the band is in the room, and brings the lowest octave to life.
I really want to hear these PS speakers.
Sorry, is this the Harvard Business School website? Paul once said he developed a product and tried to recover the cost from selling the next one. Sounds like a Ponzi scheme to me.
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Nah but he raised the issue himself in couple of recent videos and forum posts so obviously he thought relevant
As an audiophile, I care how speakers sound and how they look, and the price I pay for the sound quality. Shifting the main focus away from the speakers themselves into theories on how pricing is determined, and whether a theory on how to price something is appropriate or not, and laboring over it. Geez!!!
Well sure would be nice to see and hear them out in the wild wouldn’t it ? Maybe all the blabbering would start focusing on sound quality. But … is what it is.
Paul said the run flat to 30 Hz. Meaning 30 Hz +/- 0.5 dB or +/- 1 dB or something.
It means that they start to drop off at 30 Hz.
Ratings are so vague if the side parameters are not mentioned.
The TAD’s may be rated 30 Hz but maybe at -3 dB, -6 dB or some manufacturers even dare to go down to -10 dB or -16 dB.
Looking at the size of the FR30 and the amount of cone surface probably Paul is not making his statement up and you’ll be hearing those low frequencies louder.
But specs say nothing, you indeed need to hear them.
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That is only partially true.
If you compare 2 pieces of equipment of the same price:
The price of Equiipment 1 comprises for 90 % of:
- gross profit to make up for losses or costs products of equipment I don’t buy,
- tariffs,
- shipment
I.e. only 10 % of my money really goes into proving a quality product.
vs.
The price of Equipment 2 comprises for 60 % of profit, tariffs and shipment, i.e. 40 % go into quality of the product.
Which product would you prefer to buy?
So if a company tries to sell me something for 25 k$ I surely try to find out how much of that money goes into providing me better quality.
Thanks for clearing that up.
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We need HBR & MIT SMR as much as we need Build Review, probably even more 
The pricing of the new speaker is completely irrelevant to me, since I’ll never be able to afford them, though I recognize there are many here who can, which obviously makes the cost relevant to them. But I don’t see the point in endless discussions of what factors truly justify a given price and what ones don’t.
We know profit has to be included, but beyond that there are actual material and labor costs, recouped R&D, or a combination of both. Hell, it could even just be set in response to the pricing of comparable-performing units in the existing market. After all, if it fails because it’s not competitive, then the whole thing’s just an academic exercise. In reality, the final price will probably reflect all of these influences.
I’m sure I’m oversimplifying things, or displaying the ignorance that arises from my own lack of plentiful disposable income, but whatever reasoning goes into the setting of a speaker’s price, once the price is set, it seems to me that the only important criterion for we consumers to factor into any purchase decision is whether that speaker brings value to our life commensurate with its price. Why the price was chosen, while interesting, has no bearing on that purchase decision, unless performance isn’t the most important thing to you as a consumer. And maybe it isn’t. That’s between you and your wallet. It’s not for me to second-guess anyone’s consumption rationale.
In many ways, this whole discussion reminds me of a lot of chatter on acoustic guitar forums a few years ago, where people complained loudly and bitterly that given their price points and their reputation, Martin was using Richlite for fretboards on some of their models instead of ebony. They were actually incensed; they raged about it - a Martin should be all wood! My view was a) there was no attempt to defraud - Martin never claimed these were ebony fretboards, and the fact that they were Richlite was displayed clearly on their website - and b) if you don’t like the idea of spending a couple of thousand or more on a guitar without a wood fretboard, don’t buy one. Let your wallet vote on the issue and be done with it.
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Did you ever consider that the price has not been set yet, and that these forums are closely monitored? Perhaps if folks air their concerns it may influence the eventual price. As has been mentioned, the price has gone from $6k to a mentioned possible $30k - not exactly typical. Just normal discussion. Nobody is being disrespectful, and all of the talk is about the new speakers and related subjects. Skip over posts that don’t interest you I guess.
Or in my case I gave up waiting and moved on to something entirely different. Someday there will be a PS Audio speaker on the market, some day…
Until then I’m content with my decision to move on. As I most recently learned, yet again, any acquisition of a a speaker will result in reevaluation of the system top to bottom, especially amplification.
How much it may cost, the cost basis, and specifications for a potential product that is not even in the beta testing stage is not of much interest to me. Having heard the speaker at the 2019 RMAF I thought it showed potential, but did not line-up with my taste. Certainly I heard no basis to obsess.
With time PS Audio will get there, how the market reacts is entirely another matter. Until then there is other equipment and music to explore.
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I hear ya. When I get in the mood to buy I need to do it before I come to my senses and spend the money on frivolous things like retirement planning or college funds or … 
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I like your style… My kids are done with college with funds to spare. Retirement is set, so its music time!
So now for some plowing through the grooves:
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So…you only buy products for which the manufacturer provides their financial sheets to you and you deem the numbers acceptable? I guess you live in an empty cave.
Shall we rename this thread the economics of designing, building and marketing a speaker?
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Yes, as Rudolf mentions, manufacturers don’t always state this the same way. Your speaker is great and extends fairly deep for a large monitor.
[TAD Compact Reference CR1 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com](https://Stereophile measurements of CR1)
By the measurements above, it appears that their spec for the low frequency cutoff is a -10 db.
Our speaker is -6 dB at ~27 hz which puts it flat to 20 Hz or thereabouts in most rooms. A 20 Hz wave is ~55 ft long and you are acoustically “near” a number of room boundaries at those frequencies and get a lift in the very deep bass. Then again, if the system extends flat to 25 hz and not 20, we are only talking about three semitones (going from E (below E0) to a G.
Every octave you go down, woofer excursion quadruples (not doubles), also, to extend an octave below a given low frequency cutoff (going from 40hz to 20hz, for instance), sensitivity either needs to drop 3 db or enclosure size needs to go up by 8X (for the same sensitivity).
As such, we focused on having enough displacement (cone area and excursion) for realistic “live levels” (115+ db peaks at 1M, with very low distortion at average listening levels), reasonable sensitivity and impedance (88 dB/2.83V and moderate 4 ohm load) and also take into account the rooms response (room gain at LF) into speakers roll off to get a flat response in-room to the very deep bass.
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No I don’t live in an empty cage, neither do I ask for a financial overview, but I do ask a lot of questions. I add to the answers the visual observations of pictures of the products, preferably from reviews with opened products, if possible touch and feel in a show room, listening in a showroom.
This forum and its members are also a good source of information.
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