PS Audio Direct Stream DAC vs Benchmark DAC3 HGC

Both would be fantastic. I think it may ultimately boil down to personal preference!

I have no experience with the BHK pre but I can confirm the McIntosh C2600 is a very nice sounding preamp. Tubes have a magical effect in the way that harmonic distortion can make it easier to hear instruments and detail.

I think a tube preamp with SS power amps is a great way to go.

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Thanks. I have MC611 amps so there may be more synergy with the C2600, in addition to having a pre with DAC in case I may need it. I never have any tube gear so this would be my first tube component! I will be auditioning both the BHK pre and C2600.

Did you change the tubes on the C2600? If so, which tubes brand you would recommend? Is it easy to change the tubes on C2600?

Thanks Ted! You are correct, I am already using XLR and found out the 106 control.

The Moon Rocks involved a bit of birthday luck for me. I was in the market for a new amp and was browsing eBay and found two listings from different sellers, each had one Moon Rock. It turns out they are estate sale shoppers, both went to the same sale and thought because there was two pairs of binding posts that each were a stereo amplifier.

I managed to talk them down to $7000 for the pair and they were local enough where I could drive and pick them up in person on my birthday! Quite the present!

What pre-amp do you use in your system?

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Very interesting. Just goes to show you that no two systems are alike and you have to find what works well for you.

My buddy is coming over next week and is now considering the upgrade to DSD Sr. from his Benchmark. He is going to A/B them on my system, he will tell me if I am full of shit or not haha

I have the Bridge II but haven’t installed it yet. I have just been playing from USB on my PC. As you can tell I was pleasantly surprised, at this level I was expected marginal gains from my Benchmark- instead I received a much greater return.

$7k / pair, I’d have been all over that myself!

I have a multichannel system and use the EMM Labs (Meitner) Switchman preamp. It has four sets of inputs, six channels apiece, with all 24 individual inputs trimmable. It may not be the best preamp in the world but it’s perfect for my system.

Short of a preamp (which I always think is a good idea) you might try some 6, 10 or 12dB inline attenuators to find the sweet spot between not enough loudness and too much noise.

If you are handy, the design of the DS is such that you only need a resistor to ground from each side of a balanced connector or one resistor for an RCA for an attenuator. (I seem to remember that 62 ohms would give 10dB of attenuation (I’d use 0.1% resistors.) One fellow opened his DS and lifted some resistors to get less attenuation: DS Jr. and Attenuator)

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Moon Rocks…wow! Back when I had the moonw5 amplifiers I thought that was great, my Dad then one upped me and got the Moonw10’s. Now he has the Audio Research REF250SE’s, so I got the BHK300’s :slightly_smiling_face:

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Yes, Bridge II streaming Roon. Speakers are restored vintage Swallow Acoustics ALS2 actives made in UK in early 1980s. The presentation through the DS DAC is getting better by the hour, now about 75 hours of running time.

I wonder what attenuator pad setting you used on the Benchmark?

I don’t think Benchmark (or any preamp for that matter) will sound very good at ultra low volumes which are very close to zero volume or 100dB attenuation. The Benchmark device like any other preamp (or the DSD SR) is best when played at 12 o’clock or higher - preferably even higher around 2 o’ clock. Headroom and linearity is always degraded at attenuation levels of 70dB and higher. On the DSD Sr I would recommend the volume to be a minimum of 60 out of 100.

It is best to keep audio line levels signals always as high as possible as it helps with linearity and S/N.

I don’t dispute what you heard on your system. I just added what I heard. And I certainly don’t wish to contradict or tell you what you heard.

That said, “night and day” to me means such a huge difference that I find this is surprising given both DACs are rated Stereophile Recommended A+ Components…

I definitely heard differences versus the DSD Sr and these differences were easily audible but it wasn’t like one was fantastic and the other was terrible.

I think for rock/pop/blues/country/jazz I really like the DSD Sr but for classical and Rap/disco/techno I really like the impact or dynamics of the DAC3.

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There is one good reason for advocating the use of higher digital volume levels on the DirectStream DACs but linearity isn’t it. The reason is to keep the audio signal nicely above the fixed-level noise floor of the analog output stage. You get 50dB of perfectly linear, lossless attenuation to play with in the digital realm (volume settings 0 through 100 in 0.5dB steps). The -20dB analog pad is the place you might find some small compromises in sound quality.

As has been discussed many times in these forums, if you’re using an analog pre-amp then set the DS to 100 (or 98 if you’re still running one of the versions with math bugs causing clicks) and high level output. If you’re running direct to power amps or active speakers, start with the attenuator engaged and see where the digital volume takes you. If 106 isn’t loud enough, drop back to the 60s and turn off the attenuator.

Spoiler alert - I am prejudiced. :slight_smile:

I would be very cautious going with the McIntosh with B and W. In my experience the McIntosh can tend to be a little on the congested bright side and that’s not what the B and Ws are happiest with. A BHK, on the other hand, has the warmth and
openness for better synergy.

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I used the 20dB attenuator on the Benchmark too. Comfortable listening with the 20dB on the Benchmark enabled was between 10-11 o’clock. 12-1 was when I really wanted it loud.

On the DSD Sr. 70-90 is normal listening level for me depending on content. 90-105 is loud bout not loud enough for those times that you just want to crank it up. I could disabled the attenuation for those times, but now I am curious about how a tube pre-amp would change the sound on my system.

I bet you’d love it. I use a Decware ZTPRE preamp and now won’t live without it. . . just the icing on the cake.

Hi Paul - thanks. Yes, the B&W is a little on the bright side so need to add some warmth. I currently have the DAC Sr and love it! Will definitely audition the BHK pre.

A tube preamp gives you options to tailor the sound without buying a new amp. 12AX7 are common inexpensive guitar amp tubes and are used in the C2600 - so you can roll tubes to taste. Too bright - just install an NOS Mullard. Too dull - just install an NOS Telefunken. Looking for something special or “just right” - NOS RCA Long Black Plate from late 50’s are sweet sounding but without loss of detail. There are hundreds to choose from - eBay or Upscale audio or go to garage sales…and remember that with tubes you are not just fiddling with EQ - the unique harmonic distortion qualities of tubes are what allow you a deeper level of control of the sound.

Contrary to popular belief, although SS are much more accurate, tubes can actually allow you to hear more. The harmonic overtones allow the brain/ear to work out fundamentals and this can add clarity much in the same way a drummer will tune a snare so that overtones cut through the mix (although a drum may be bad analogy as the overtones aren’t necessarily harmonic related). I find hi -hat on a tube preamp has much better audibility in the mix!

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I hope I don’t offend anyone in this thread owning it (there might be situations where it works fine), but I can only support Paul, that McIntosh (at least non tube) combined with B&W usually is a very boring, lifeless and sterile experience imo, although sold like that all over the world.

hi buuthanh,

I have just finished returning the C52 to magnolia and they charged me a 15% restock fee. Yes, it’s buried in the website return policy, but that is a large bit of change for having a product less than 10 days. After I was hit with this news, I asked about the MC302 amp I just placed an order for a few days ago (for bi-amping). I own a MC302 from 2015, and made it clear to the dealer that I would return the new 302 if it sounded significantly different than my current 302. He said that would be fine, and that he would ‘take care of it’. He did not mention anything of a 15% restock fee. So, with a bad taste in my mouth from the 15% hit for the 52 return, I got paranoid the new 302 may sound different and decided to cancel my order with that amp. Boom, another 15% restock fee. I left Magnolia giving them 1600.00$ for restock fees. I asked why such a contract exists between them and McIntosh. They said it was due to McIntosh requirements. I’ll be calling McIntosh tomorrow in addition to Best Buy high management. Sure, hit me with a 5-8% restock fee, but damn, 15% on high end audio, while being such a subjective endeavor to begin with, is just bad business and almost theft (Hi-fi is not cheap) from the protective veil of a corporation.

Anyway, I liked the m52, but i did want to put a DSD in front of it. Since the resulting sound was identical with the 52 between my 302 and bencmark dac, as it was w/o the 52 in the chain, i decided it was the 52 dac creating the sound I liked. I expect greater performance from the DSD, so I felt no need or desire to use the 52s DAC. Again, when the Benchmark was in the chain, the 52 made no sonic difference. I’m very aware of the sound from Benchmark > 302. Have I already said this? It was exactly the same sound of the Benchmark >52 >302 chain. I’m ordering the DSD tomorrow, and couldn’t be happier, it’s whats keeping me sane from this 1600.00 nightmare I’m going to try and resolve. STAY AWAY FROM MAGNOLIA you good people…please!

Long story short, please find out everything you can before you purchase McIntosh gear and from what dealer. I’m so irate, i will be posting this information everywhere (sorry your ear got the first rant :D). But, yeah, do your homework. I’m out of the McIntosh game forever…loved their sound since music school. I’ve been wanting an excuse to really look at some Pass gear (with DSD up front), now is my excuse.

Well, the main reason for my winded story is to suggest (I concede I may have it all wrong) that the 2600 sound “MAY”, in large part, be due to the how they implemented the upsampling PCM DAC into their pre amps.

If you take a Mac home, best of luck man!

robert

For approximately one month, I shot out a McIntosh C52 preamp against a Mark Levinson 326S preamp using the DS Sr. as the source. I got both preamps from Audio Classics in Binghamton, NY (coincidentally, the home of McIntosh). I kept the Levinson and returned the C52 (this shootout took place before the BHK pre was released). The MSRP on the Levinson was higher ($11.4K w/optional phono preamp) versus the C52 ($7K), though the sale prices were much closer together (i.e., the discount on the Levinson was greater). Audio Classics was excellent to deal with: NO restocking fee on the C52. Full disclosure, I bought both preamps on the condition that I would keep one of them. If I were in the market for McIntosh gear, I would start my search at Audio Classics.

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Hi Robert,
Thanks for sharing your experience. This is truly unacceptable from Magnolia to treat a customer like they did to you. If you paid it with a Credit Card, you may want to reach out to see if they can help you with dealing with Magnolia and resolve the restocking fee of 15% which seems outrageous.
I will audition both the C2600 and BHK pre. My experience with the DAC Sr so far has been excellent.
Good luck.