Should you spend more money on an amp or preamp to get better sound?

Thanks for the info! I’m definitely going separates, have budget Fluance towers, an emotiva basx3 amp and a sprout 100, with a Fluance rt83 turntable. I’m upgrading speakers first, then will update amp and preamp later. Eventually I will get a separate phono preamp as well. Looking at a VPI turntable as the final upgrade to my system.

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Hmm the famous question. Everyone has what seems to be a different answer. Hey that is what makes it fun. I’m a believer that you need to start with the source. To me what good is a 10K pair of speakers if I am driving it with my 1984 walkman. So I would think a preamp would be the key but again everyone has their own preference.

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I might be one of the contrarians on the thread. I have always regarded my preamp as the nerve center of my system. All of my sources go into it, its output is the source for my power amp. Dollar for dollar if I’m thinking about an upgrade of my amplification chain, the nerve center gets priority.
My two cents.

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… because he made source components and electronics! His first speakers, Linn Kan, were cobbled together from liquidation stock when Chartwell went bust. They were so bad, some people loved them.

Last time I looked, the sound came from the speakers. They need power to move those little cones back and forth. That where the amplifier comes in. Getting an amplifier first is like buying a tank of fuel and looking to buy a car to put it in. Sources just work on a GIGO basis. I decided over 10 years ago streaming will take over the world because great quality sound can be done so cheaply.

In 40 years of owning audio I’ve never owned an active pre-amp, only once owning a passive pre-amp, for 6 months that cost $500. I’ve never felt left out. My first hifi was an Aiwa Music Centre, and here in the UK integrated components have always been far more popular than separates, especially integrated amplifiers (often with phono), so I’ve always liked integrated units.

People rarely mention the volume control on PS Audio DACs, but I thought it was excellent and for several years ran a PWD Mk2 DAC straight into a power amplifier.

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It seems to me speaker abs power amp can last decades but source tech changes more frequently. So get best speakers you will like for long haul and then a great amp. But amps cost less so maybe start with the amp.

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For what it is worth, I offer this from another thread , which sums up exactly what I mean:

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For me I don’t want a great pair of speakers for any amount of time if the music coming out of them isn’t that good.

Like I stated, everyone has their preference. Nothing wrong with that. There are no wrong answers, just preference.

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Well one thing I didn’t mention is I want more bass than my speakers are giving me right now. Hopefully without having to get subs (don’t have the room). So I wanted to change them first, then get amps/ preamps that match or go well together.

To answer your hidden question. Yeah, it is ok to have a more expensive preamp feeding the Emotiva power amp.

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This is such a loaded question. Having listened to friends’ systems who have different approaches to mine, there is seldom any right or wrong for getting best sound you can afford, but you have to be realistic about your limits. Equally restrictive are your budget, and your listening room. These influence what you can achieve in sound quality.

After that, I’m in the camp that the sound you get is determined first by the recording you’re playing and the sound is preserved or degrades as you go down the chain. One of the other things I’ve learned to be true is your listening room will restrict what sound you can get. This is where you need speakers that work well with your listening room.

My approach was best source (e.g. Direct to disc vinyl, DSD mastered recordings on DSD files, etc.), next would be best player (high end turn table, arm, MC cartridge, high speed tower computer, bit perfect software), next part of the chain is the phono preamp or high resolution DAC, next is the preamp, the amp and the loudspeakers.

For the rooms I’ve setup my systems, Vandersteens worked best without breaking the bank. Then I looked at what I had left over to spend. I got the expensive high end turntable, and MC cartridge. The arm was selected based on the cartridge, and I got the best phono stage I could afford, it was in the PS Audio IVH preamp. I got an amplifier that could do a decent job to drive the speakers and preserve the audiophile details.

A most impressive demonstration came from the local Mark Levinson dealer. Salesman asked me if I ever heard the Levinson? So he had to play it for me. He played them through modest speakers I could afford Polk Audio Monitor 10s. It was astonishing. The speakers played loud but they sounded really clear. The way they filled the demo room with sound made if feel like the band was playing for you in the room. The high end amp had absolute control over the drivers and made the speakers sound much better than you could imagine. I bought the speakers.

An equally impressive demo was a friend who upgraded his preamp. He had an Amber preamp and replaced it with an ARC SP8. It was astonishing how the sound stage blossomed not just in depth but in height. The ability to float sounds in mid air was spectacular. He had the high end table arm and cartridge and a Klyne head amp which allowed this to happen.

Later in life when I splurged for the high end preamp and power amp, they revealed EVERYTHING. If you had vibration issues, you heard microphonics which affected the performance, some sounds would be harsh, and some sounds wouldn’t be clear. Similar negative effects if you had AC issues. That’s on top of finding interconnects and speaker cables that work well in the system.

So if you are considering shelling out a lot of money for an upgrade, find a reputable dealer who can understand what you have to work with and what you are willing to spend. You might find it better to upgrade something different than what you were considering.

You’ll likely find it worthwhile to pay attention to how you have your system components set up. You may find your system might sound better than you thought. Try experimenting with speaker placement. Distance away from walls will change sound. Make sure speakers and other components are properly seated and not rocking back and forth. Check your shelves. They should be level. Do the tap test. Put one finger on the audio component and tap the shelf with your other hand. You want a dull thud and not be able to feel vibration. Otherwise, your shelves are vibrating causing “ringing”. Other things like that.

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This is good advice, OP. In a similar vein, I highly recommend Jim Smith’s “Get Better Sound” in paperback or on DVD. My paperback copy is getting a bit dog-eared because I refer to it often to make sure I being consistent in observing good practices and plotting my kit upgrade path and room modifications in a manner that does not work at cross purposes. Highly recommended:https://www.getbettersound.com/store

Most importantly, have some fun.

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Something you might want to play around with is speaker placement. There are many videos and techniques out there, but if you have a small room, this one will show you what your speaker soundstage can do.

L.O.T.S. Loudspeaker Optimization Techniques for Soundstage! - YouTube

It might just surprise you. Have fun!

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Great info thx!

I put this here because it illustrates how profoundly an amplifier effects sound, all else being equal.
I have three amps. Each one has it’s own personality. I enjoy switching amps to match my mood.
My one preamp is a constant in the system.

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What size are the cabinets, drivers, are they ported and how far are you from the wall and corners ? It all matters including the power cord and speaker cables? You can move back speakers and towards corners. It is better to take away bass than add through equalization since power requirements go up geometrically.

There is no substitute for cabinet size when it comes to clean bass. Subwoofers help if karge enough. There is no clear answer if moving speakers don’t fix it.

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For me speakers are by far the most important element in the chain. Amp versus preamp? Modern Class D amps have such good characteristics that they can be considered neutral and clinical. If you then splurge on a preamp, possibly with tubes, to get the sonic character you want then you can be confident that the amp will reproduce it faithfully.

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With no upgrades or changes in many years this “stay home” thing put me on the path to start buying without auditioning. It started with the BHK 300s. A serious bit of cash outlay I had not climbed to before but… I decided it was time. I then replaced all my cables which was a bit more cash but I think I’m probably set for another decade there. It was then time to match this new bit of kit with a pre-amp. I was heavily leaning to the BHK but it was at a price point which required more distance from the 300’s and new cable purchase. Not being content to “just live with” my current pre-amp, I started looking for something that punched high on the review trail and I wouldn’t care about getting rid of it in less than a year when I finally pulled the trigger on something matching the price point of the 300s… I ended up with a Freya+ and rolled-in some tubes that make it sing in my system. I’ve stopped reading reviews and I’m done upgrading until the “stay at home” thing is over and I can go listen to gear again. I’m really impressed with these upgrades. I’m not rushing to replace the Freya+ like I thought I would be.

Anyway… there are components out there that punch way above their price point so its kind of thrown the old model out the window. I’m sure there are plenty of significantly better pre-amps than the Freya+ but I’m also not in anyway embarrassed to say I’m pairing a $900 pre-amp to a $15,000 set of monos. Heck, just the cables connecting these things are multiple times the cost of the Freya+. Crazy! But it works… and its given me time… in fact… it’s given me so much time I may upgrade my speakers before I replace the Freya+.

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I agree. These pieces of kit are what I call BBFTB purchases (Big bang for the buck), and I consciously try to work my upgrade plan by seeking out such products. Just two examples:

  1. I bought a dealer-demo pair of Anthony Gallo Acoustics Reference 3.1 speakers more than 15 years ago and they are still the center pieces of my 2.1/7.1 system. The Gallos were a value proposition at their MSRP and “giant killers” according to the fawning audio press and satisfied customers. By trading in some kit and getting a discount as well due to their demo status, my BBFTB for these speakers was/has been off the charts.

  2. I am currently focused on upgrading all things power related in my system. The PSA AC line of power cables is out of production. But with a little patience, the AC-12’s and their “smaller” brethren can be had from reputable hobbyists and dealers at a fraction of their original MSRP as folks move on to “better” and more expensive, recent designs. I would never have even considered spending what these cables used to cost for my system. Now they are relatively affordable.

I know this is not an original approach, I just wanted to underscore @ipeverywhere 's sentiments about seeking out components that “punch way above their price point”.

Cheers.

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Yes I’m looking for punch above price point for sure. I’m looking at Tannoy xt 8f, kef r7, monitor audio gold series or tekton DI for speakers. A solid state amp and a tube preamp(thanks Paul), maybe prima luna? and possibly a parasound jc3 jr phono. Still not sure on the exact combo, but hopefully I’m heading in the right direction.

It’s been my experience that if you want that “tube sound”, the amp is most effective. A tube amp with tube rectification. Prima Luna is a good place to look as is Decware.

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