Sine or Multiwave function

I like your question. My answer is yes. I think the 700s appreciate MW along with most gear out there. I always tell people to use MW unless they notice that it’s a detriment to the sound.

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JUST what I was looking for, and from an authoritative source at that.

Thank you. :+1:

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A DC blocker made my P15 hum that much more so I had to remove it.

Hello RonP,

I hooked up a cmx-2 to my system over year ago and it improved my hum from my McIntosh MC205 dramatically. I hooked up my P15 in the hopes of not having to use the cmx-2 any longer, but the loud hum returned. Hence, now I have the cmx-2 plugged into my P15 and my amp plugged into the cmx and it sounds great. Very faint hum, and you have to be within a foot to hear it.

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Hi guys, since my P500 I got the notion that sinewave is mandatory to tubed gear, turntable and projector or other gear with cooling fan.

I actually have a P10 and was told to use multiwave to everything.

So, what has changed since P500 up to P10 and now P20 that allows MW to be used with tubes, cooling fans and turntable?

Therefore, I am using a P10 with MW set to 6 connecting everything but the turntable and projector. Tube amp and pre amp now connected to P10 with MW set to 6 as there is no longer the tube wave function from my old P500.

The older MultiWaves has varying frequencies which didn’t play nice with AC synchronized products like motors. Vacuum tube filaments would buzz a bit because of the varying frequencies too. More modern MultiWave is the proper frequency, but extends the peak
charging time at the top of the sine wave. This helps reduce power supply ripple and is akin to adding more capacitance to the power supply of the connected unit. It also doesn’t bother motors or tubes, so best of all worlds.

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I wonder if one can determine a trend as to what type of equipment works best with multiwave or sine wave. For example if a tube amp already has substantial capacitance does multiwave make a difference or should it always benefit from multiwave? What design architecture would work best for sine wave? Does it only matter in amps or does it make a difference with DAC’s, streamers, etc.

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I’ve gone back and forth several times since the advent of MW. Lately, I’ve settled on SINE.

I have a mix of tube and SS. The tube preamp seems oblivious to MW – no change in sound. The other stuff seemed to sound better at first, but became annoying over time.

Biggest thing I noticed is a “steely” sound with massed violins on MW. On SINE, the violins sound more woody, which I think is closer to reality.

Just my 2 cents.

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Elk,

I really like your response here, describing the sine wave with the third harmonic and showing the graph of how it looks.

What does the different numbers for multiwave mean? Are these different amplitudes of the third harmonic?

-Ryan

Unfortunately, I do not know.

I just called PS Audio.

They said that the different numbers increase the width of the tops/bottoms of the waves(increasing wave length…right?). This is similar to how you how you have it shown in your picture. I then asked why the addition of the third harmonic is not represented in the output wave form in the oscilloscope. He said that the third harmonic is just used to alter the wave width but the final wave form is still (converted to) a smooth sine wave.

I did go into the oscilloscope and change from the largest multiwave value ‘6’ and compare that to the ‘sine’ function. You can see a difference in wave length, it’s small but it’s there.

It’s been a while since physics class…but…wave speed = wave frequency x wave length. So, if we are altering the wave length and keeping the frequency the same(60hz) then we must be changing the wave speed by altering the wave length(by using the multiwave function).

Am I thinking of this correctly?..or am I way off?

Ryan

So I was looking this completely wrong…it’s not changing the wave length. Instead, like Elk said above, it’s adding in the 3rd harmonic but by doing this it’s changing the wave form and not the wave length.

You will notice the wavelength does not change BUT the top gets wider since it is an amalgam of the original sine wave and it’s third order harmonic.

Again, when I called and asked PS Audio why the addition of the third harmonic is not represented in the output wave form in the oscilloscope. I was told that the third harmonic is just used to alter the upper waveform width but the final wave form is still (converted to) a smooth sine waveform.

When I looked at the output oscilloscope again I noticed my original mistake. The wave length is the same BUT the top of the waveform gets wider as you increase the ‘multi’ waveform number.

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Does multiwave work better in less expensive gear with less than adequate capacitance? If given the choice of adequate capacitance in an amplifier and using sine wave or would multiwave still be an improvement? Secondly what gear is low distortion vs high regulation best suited for (i.e. DAC’s)? It seems there must have been specific objectives in the design parameters that were trying to be solved.

I would like to see some guidance such as:

  1. If the power amp has high amount of internal capacitance then generally sine is best.
  2. If input power THD is low then high regulation is always best.

Finally, can one measure a waveform out of an amp with a dummy load and see the impact on a scope?

MultiWave extends the craving time of capacitors in the power supply. It does this by adding a bit of third harmonic to the waveform, which you’ve likely figured out. In almost every case, it lowers ripple in the powered supply. This is because a longer charging
time at the peak of the sine wave better fills the emptied power supply capacitor in the same way as would happen had you added more capacitors to the supply.

The best way to know is to simply try it and see which way sounds the best to you on your product and in your system. You can easily verify what’s happening to the ripple current on your connected equipment with a scope, if that’s what you want
to do and have the knowledge to do it.

It’s a lot easier just to turn MultiWave on and off and listen.

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“Cough cough.” This would be a lot easier to do from a web interface.

“Cough cough.” :grin:

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Tony,

The network idea is really good! In the meantime you can still use the remote that came with regenerator. It has a MW button and you can also change the MW level…all with the remote on the fly.

You can also turn it on and off with the remote

Already know that. Try doing it with a pair of old eyeballs while the regenerator is 10 feet away and off behind your right shoulder. :woozy_face:

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Tony, that is a good point.

I heard a rumor that there was network functionality to allow you to turn your regenerator off while you’re away away from home remotely. So, I bet they could easily add this function down the line as an update fairly easily.