Sneak Peek: FR-30, now FR-80

I don’t know about perfect, but I heard some damn fine speakers last year at AXPONA. A number of them would make me very happy for a long time.

Precisely. It is a matter of finding that right fit. Some of us will find it…some won’t, ever. I am fortunate to have found a loudspeaker that I have no interest in replacing. But, this is an ever evolving industry so with new products coming to market at a rapid rate, my desire to look no further could very well change.

Paul,

I don’t know if someone has asked this yet…but, is this new speaker design using ‘force cancelling’ woofers like the kef blades?

Cause that would be really cool if they did. I always thought that was a brilliant design feature.

Yes, too picky, too snobby, and yet a perfect post with great insight all at the same time, lol. :slight_smile:
I too am having issues finding that perfect balance, and I am almost there (or I have fooled myself into thinking I am almost there), but I am nowhere near the quality level of the systems you have been fortunate to experience. Yes, the Piega 711’s look frigging cool. I saw them at Axpona, but for the life of me I cannot remember what they sound like, or what other electronics accompanied them. Thanks for the post!

Great post @etchcube. I’ve been banging on a bit in this thread about Piega, because these speakers started off as a ribbon line source of which the only thing in the world comparable is the Piega MLS. I had lots of concerns because Piega have been making their concentric mid/treble ribbon for the best part of 30 years, it’s unique, flat and not recessed, and I questioned the design PSA have come up with with a non-flat recessed concentric pair of mid and treble ribbons. A lot of this thread goes on about the bass, but my interest is how the ribbons tie in with the mid-bass drivers. There was originally only one of them, now two. It seemed to me that might result in a rather uneven presentation.

I got rid of all my boxes in 2016 and have a Devialet Expert 250 Pro CI, which as you know has a superb highly resolving DAC and DSP (SAM) that gives a nice clean bass from effectively 2-way speakers. I love ESL’s and brought in a pair of 63’s, basically new, resulting in the one and only time my wife told me in no uncertain terms to get rid of them else she would. They unashamedly favour classical, vocal and some jazz. They were never intended to do thumping bass and the bass they do is different from a driver that pushes out a lot of air. 63’s with a sub is probably better than 2905 or 2912 without.

I share your views on the aesthetics, but put that down to what I suspect is a massive gulf between European and USA aesthetics. I made the point above that the one company that sort of got it right was apple, only because of an English designer (Ive) who basically copied a German (Rams). To me Piega are sheer class.

There are some USA speakers that I consider so ugly that if I ever went to a USA audio show I might have to wear protective eyewear. In fact I find most of them dead ugly, with the exception of Wilson, which my wife thinks are grotesque, even the little ones. I don’t even like the look of my own speakers (Harbeth), but the sound compensates.

I’m thinking of the 8c because they are visually inoffensive in white/birch. Was wondering if the Kii Three were the new ones with the bass towers.

I could live happily with ESL63 (as I live near Quad for repairs) and a Devialet 140 CI, and you will only be satisfied with Piega MLS (+Devialet, AVM, or similar I presume). The only barriers we face are women and money. Tell me something new.

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I experienced the Piega at shows quite boring and with little impact from ribbons downwards. Would have to reread my own show report here. I guess they sound quite the opposite there of what the FR-30 promise.

Edit:

I just looked for my documented impression, and it fits to what I remembered:

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Numbers of drivers has zero bearing on relative levels between them. That’s all handled in the crossover network.

I appreciate that, I don’t recall any discussion of the crossover design, which can take ages.

While the new speakers may or may not sound good you need to get out of the past in your styling. The wives out there may want something they can live with.

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Exactly my observation, AB tested them with Burmester speakers, Piega lost so much bass that we started checking the speaker cable connections, nothing wrong, just no bass with the Piegas. Yes the mid and treble were detailed rendered clearly but without the bass not rich neither exciting. The Burmester beat them in overall performance, and at the end of the day that is what counts.

I will go back and listen to the unfortunately rather locally available Swiss Rowen Symphony. Their predecessors 2&2 and 3&3 left a very positive impression in my memory. Now the Rowen Symphony are improved by a 5 octave Linear Motion Transformer mid range / tweeter, which I have not heard yet.

The only speakers beating them as far as I can recall were Wilson (Sacha or Yvette, don’t remember) B&W (800 D3 or 803, don’t remember the type exactly, but the ones with the spherical mid range compartment) and the magnificent Avantgarde Acoustic UNO DX (with Octave Tube Amplifiers). The latter might rob me of my believe and make me rob a bank.

But close to the wall, which is a given due to the available real estate, the Rowen closed cabinet bipolar speakers are the best I heard. Perhaps together with the equally closed cabinet Avantgarde Acoustic horn speakers.

What has all this to do with the FR30’s? One of the technical aspects Paul has pulled consequently through is the closed cabinet large diafragma subwoofer section, which is rather a prerequisite to control the bass close to the wall.
Should the Stellar speakers become reflex speakers, I would heavily opt for the Rowen. Think it’s worthwhile a short vacation to that jaw dropping impressive mountain sight country. But I will await the Stellars to call the shot as I enjoy the design tour PS Audio took us on.

I have found Line Source driver levels can be affected by speaker cables, power cables, interconnects, and digital cabling that could leave one to believe issue is in crossover.

Thus responsible for various opinions on the acceptability. You would hope at a high end show they would be prepared with a myriad of selections ro get setup right for the room. No DSP could be an issue where they cabled for a balance then things changed with new room.

Cables that change the sound are called “equalizers”. A cable should NOT color the sound in any way. If you don’t like how your speakers sound, get an equalizer and set it to the way you like it once and for all rather than spending endless time and money going through cables.

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ThAt was my point maybe the display was colored by cables. An equalizer is a poor way to address bass issues related to room modes as are cables.

Yes and no. It’s an easy way to tame peaks (which tend to be more annoying and noticeable than dips). Is it the best way? Of course not. You gotta take care of the room.

My comment was meant as a general statement on cables.

Makes you wonder about companies that are too lazy to do something about the rooms they exhibit in. It’s not exactly hard to put up a few diffusers and bass traps. Are they as lazy in their own listening rooms that they develop their products in?

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This first pair of Wilson Audio speakers has killed my desire to search for speakers. I got lucky I guess. I imagine if something further up the Wilson line became available at some foolishly low price I might consider…

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I am grateful for all your reports on speakers. Reason why I read this forum. It is quite an investment, nearly undisputed the most important in a stereo system. Spending an amount I’ve never spent on a hobby before, at once, causes me look at: what is available, what my needs are and how I can narrow my search down. It is probably impossible to listen to it all. So, your reports, pictures and opinions matter in that pleasant search for the best fit.

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I’m really pleased with my new to me Wilson’s. Lovely sound that already has me looking up the line for the future.

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@etchcube, I respect your experience. However, you must realize there are vastly more speakers you have not heard than you have heard - considering make/model/design. I am confident there is a “Perfect” speaker for you out there… you just need to find it. And it may be that it is not an open baffle.

Hi Jeff
I have listened to most relevant and better known high-end speakers in the market and to many obsurities that are hardly known. I have also worked in recording studios for many years working with studio monitors. After a while your brain starts to learn to predict the sound of speakers by their construction principles. What I mean is, if I read about the construction principles of a speaker (drivers, driver sizes, cabinet, closed, bass-reflex, transmission line, active, passive, crossover 1st order, 2nd order, crossover points etc.) I can make an approximation of how it will sound. Of course I don’t know this precisely but I know it more or less. You especially learn to predict the shortcomings and strong points of speakers. The integration and balance is harder to predict but there is the huge part of the room to factor in. You learn how materials sound, driver technologies etc. It is a fact. Due to this it is not necessary to listen to every speaker out there. I can extrapolate how “my ideal speaker” would have to be constructed. Therefore I know that it is out there and that I can’t afford it. I may have to build it myself one day. And the outcome of this would be completely unknown due to my inexistent DIY skillset.

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I am having trouble reconciling these two observations. How did the DS go from being part of one of the best configurations ever to being a source of unacceptable, audible hiss and noise? Maybe I am simply not following along properly. If you meant that the amps and the preamp were too noisy for the DS and your speakers, that kind of makes sense to me, though.

The DS combined with the HV was fine because only the DS created noise/hiss and the not the T+A HV which was quite clean. The DS combined with all the BHK electronics added up to too much noise/hiss or whatever it was. No more black background but grey.

In any event, based on your extensive experience and past successes (and misses/mistakes), are you going to start over with speakers and work your way back through the signal chain to try and recapture the magic or is the Devialet the cornerstone on which you are going to rebuild?

I don’t have the Devialets anymore. I’m running Kii Threes and will optimize the source in the future. I think that I’m tired from building systems. I will either invest in future Active Speaker solutions, so evolutions from Kii/Dutch, that are even better (practical solution). The dream (impractical) solution would be: Ribbons in a line source open baffle, open baffle line source bass. Electronics that have the magic sound of Audio Research tube amps (or similar) but with the low noise floor and power of Devialet amps.
Devialet is dead to me by the way, because of the way they ignore their customers.

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Well stated!