These are AIFF files run on a dedicated laptop with Jriver via USB (no other programs run on this). Tracks were not streamed, and came largely from Qobuz/Musician or Label direct order/Blu Ray rips/cd rips all rips were checked for consistency by dbpoweramp.
Physical tube change review - did this to go through that process while still in beta. Not a review of sonic differences - that is forthcoming.
I have some concerns about changing the tubes. I am not inexperienced with tubes, have changed aplenty. I also have the BHK pre (uses same 12au7). Changing tubes there is a breeze.
-The accessibility to the tubes can be tough, if you have large or thick fingers it will likely be difficult. Visually lining up pins isn’t easy either (you have to look through the grate on the side or try from the top).
-The tube sockets are very tight and not quite the quality I would expect. It was difficult to get the stock tubes out, and made me nervous putting them back in. I had to rotate and finagle a lot to get them started, the connectors can get a bit out of sync with the surrounding ceramic socket;
-the board started flexing a fair bit as pressure was applied (more than comfortable) - to move them in further and seat them. I thought they might break.
I don’t want to write about negatives but I need to be honest. It did make me nervous with how expensive these are to potentially break them on a tube change. Perhaps it was just my units or due to a first time tube change.
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Thanks good review i like most of the music you used i also love electronica, FKA Twigs etc. Look forward to hearing the amps
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Thanks for the fantastic review above and like you, I enjoy a decent amount of electronica and modern (maybe slightly over mastered) music. It isn’t always the best stuff to listen to critically but it can be a heck of a lot of fun because of the frequency range that is produced and (I’m stealing your word) holographic presentation.
It’s similar to CGI in a movie. Not everything in our imagination can be produced by stunt doubles and makeup. Sometimes an instrument can’t reproduce the melodies and harmonics the composer has in their head. Even though it’s purely digital, an amateur artist using Protools to overdub some vocals can be damn cool.
BTW, Everything In It’s Right Place is one of my test tracks too.
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This is also the one thing I wondered about regarding BHK pre owners and the fact that you even get used BHK300s for a similar price as the M1200. Has no one compared, do many prefer new vs. used, is it because the 6k price as any PSA MSRP is not real (due to deals etc.) and it’s finally quite cheaper than a used BHK?
Not doubting how good the M1200 is, I guess the BHK300 must be definitely better sounding, so that’s why I’m a little puzzled.
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We do not recommend rolling your own tubes in the M1200 without the use of the little tube puller we sell separately (and that also comes as standard with a set of fresh factory matched tubes). It’s also important on the M1200 (or any tube based mono block
amplifier) to make sure the tubes you use are a matched pair.
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Enjoyed your honest review. Your aesthetic gripe is my only issue with most PS gear. But man, it sounds sooo damn good! Like you, I have tube gear, a PL HP AMP paired with a BHK preamp. when that thing is all lit up, it looks killer! I thought of posting a question out of curiosity, how important is the aesthic aspect compared to the way a unit(s) sounds? Would you rather have something that looks absolutely stunning in every way with very good proformance, or an eyesore with an absolutely divine listening experience? Just to be clear, i am being general, not stating these are eyesores, just giving extremes.
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I’m generally used to tubes, matched pairs etc. (also in preamps) for quite some time…but as usual no expert.
Would be interesting to learn what matching exactly means, how difficult it is to find matched pairs etc. Maybe tube internals is a nice topic for Paul’s posts?
I went back to read the literature/manual that shipped with the amp, in it states: “If you are having difficulty reaching the tube with your hands, we offer a specialized tube puller on our website”. This is stating the tube puller is optional - so this may need to be updated as the recommendations are in conflict.
I personally did not have an issue accessing the tube via hand, and thus didn’t need a puller - per the manual. Though I mentioned in my review that some might need that. My primary thought here, is that just because I didn’t use a puller does not mean the experience of my tube rolling was somehow invalid - even by the beta literature standards. I still have the same concerns. I’ll order one for next time and see if the process improves - just don’t void my warranty!
Matched pairs are usually part and parcel of ordering from a reputable tube vendor and they offer it as an option. So for instance at tubedepot you might select a pair of golden lions, 12au7, and probably want to select for their tube testing as you see fit for the stage (low noise/microphonics, balanced triode, etc.) and select a matching pair. Upscale Audio also does pair (or more) matching, and they have “grades” of driver/gold/platinum to select for your use - input stages should be high quality grades.
Of course if you like the sound of the PSVANES PS Audio takes all that guesswork out.
Thanks! Yes…I knew where to get matched ones and that matching means, mostly equal specs…still I’d be interested in more details.
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Seems like a ‘tube puller’ needs to be provided as part of the purchase price !!
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After reading your post it sounds like pushing tubes back in is also a concern. How would a tube puller help in that regards ?
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So you like those high tech stands eyh? I finally got around to taking a picture of what is going to become the amp stands. This slab is Pau Ferro, also called Santos or South American Rosewood.
Mike
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@Paul, you have just publicly received a serious concern observed by a experienced user in beta testing stage. I am sorry to tell you that the tube puller you mention does not adequately address that concern.
Price and built quality need to go hand in hand.
How can the tube fitting and mechanical support there off be made with inferior fittings and lack of rigidity in a 3000 US$ investment product? That is US price of course not to mention overseas pricing.
Right out of production!
What will the condition of those sockets and PCB’s be in 2 years to 8 years with tubes burning in that confined space with rather limited ventilation.
Every tube will deteriorate and will need to be changed at a certain point in the future , than periodically.
Consequently those sockets must be built to last and being able to take a good amount of mechanical stress especially if you can not see the alignment of the pins when entering the tubes.
The tube puller is as the word says good for pulling them out and admittedly helps rotating them easier when inserting. But it does not take away the problem that pin alignment can not be seen, with trial and error pushing, or pins scratching the socket surface as consequence.
Than flexing or any other movement of the socket board while pushing the tubes in is simply unacceptable.
In case those sockets are made of plastic instead of ceramic, they will certainly deteriorate with age with burning tubes in confined space with limited ventilation.
Another issue is, if the metallic pin (clamping) recepticals are so tight and tough the question is even if those sockets will even survive tube changes 2, 4, 6 or 8 years or more from now.
I was not able to find much about protective measures to ensure longevity of the tubes in the specs on the WEB-site. So tubes may need to be rolled even more often.
It might be that those measures are implemented, but information about it in the specs seems to be missing.
OCTAVE tube amp manufacturer is very ademend about that aspect. They consider longevity of their tube products important:
Octave Power Management and Lifetime
It is better to improve that part now then in 1 year when people start rolling tubes.
A 5 ct/pc (in production cost) or even if it were 2 /pc tube puller, to be purchased separately from a 3000 tube amp with limited tube access by design? Really?
I quess it is time for @jamesh to make a tube change tutorial video for you. It is also a concern for many not so handy people to open BHK pre and change tube voltage and plate bias jumpers and tubes without puller. Yet everyone manages to do it. But then again you don´t have M1200 amps and probably never will so it will be a waste of time and effort. Try to be more positive or stay out as you promised to do yourself not so long ago and here you are again nagging PS Audio like you feel it´s your job to do. Watch Netflix or something with your spare time,thanks!
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You will never own them because they are too expensive - outside your budget - ‘so why get involved’. I am no shrinking violet, but I would never pass judgement on a product without firsthand experience! You are merely making assumptions based on another’s post…. Once again you are taking it upon yourself - you’re not involved in the beta!
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If what you say is valid, there is no need whatsoever to take the beta testing public like this.
There is no malicious intent.
The comment is intended to improve the product at this stage, not to burn it down.
They are off course free to ignore such feedback and deal with potentially much more expensive consequences later. I just didn’t want to sit back and watch it happen without saying something about it.
This thread is for beta testers which you are not privy to. I have zero intention of going back and forth with you. Just to finish my last post here, if there is an issue/problems then that’s for the designated testers to report on and that’s not you.
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LOL, but you did respond again after I had explained myself!