Make mine an INTEGRATED!
Cool!
Okay, now I’ll really push the envelope…
Seems like price for the Stellar S500 should actually be (after further review) $3k, given that S300 is exactly half the price of M700, and the BHK 250 is exactly half the price of BHK 300s. Right? Since we’re going for 3 tiers and keeping the synnergy…
Look how much free marketing work I’m doing for you guys!!! Even picked the name!
Haha, ah, I gotta get back to work. Thanks for humoring me though…
EDIT: yikes almost forgot the preamp! New $3.3k Stellar ____ (something catchy) preamp/dac (ess9028 or 9038) with improvements over gcd but not quite as good as bhk pre. Then the three lines will be complete! GCD was gonna need to be revved anyway with M1200 but this amazing plan let’s you keep selling everything, and three neatly tiered complete performance levels with symmetric pricing!
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Ditto !
Just read the post by ’ stevensegal’ regarding the Extraudio products . The x250 to which he refers is an Intregated Amp which should be more appropriately be compared to the yet to be released Strata.
I was interested to find details of costing. The x250 being quoted at 12000 euros (probably £12k in the UK) I found a review of the Power Amps from the Extraudio range priced at £16-20K(God knows what they would cost in the US!) !! Given that the M1200s will be £6k in the UK, then this price difference is significant!!
In recent times ,I have researched various ‘Class D’ options. The reason, well no more than my ‘office’ system comprises a two box Pre and two monos which have a number of tubes which make the whole thing a little warm in my ‘near-field’ situation ! I spoke to a UK Dealer who sold both a newish Brand and an old established Brand. The ‘old’ Brand being the first to incorporate Putzey’s design. The old Brand was considerably more expensive. I asked, why the price difference. The Dealer told me that he had to sell the old Brand at the 'stated’price(otherwise he wouldn’t get the custom) In other words ‘price fixing’ !! Of course there are always many issues to take into consideration when considering price, ‘casework’ for one. These didn’t appear to be the issue here !!
Makes me wonder about the cost of the Extraudio products !!
I hope to get to hear the M1200 soon. Come on Paul, get some over to the UK !!
Working on it. I believe Kevin (our distributor) has his orders in place. Looking at shipping in May following these beta tests.
The M1200s have been playing for about 41 hours now. With the 48 hours they were burned in at PS Audio they will hit the 100-hour mark at 11pm tonight. So far I have been popping in to listen a few times a day. I’m not taking notes or making detailed impressions yet. I have been flipping through all types of music rock, pop, classical, jazz, soundtrack, A cappella, electronic, acoustical, folk, blues, etc. I have also listened to different sources: my computer server with ROON connected to the Gain Cell DAC vis USB, an OPPO 105 connected to the GCD via XLR, and a Marantz SR7009 AV receiver connected to the GCD via RCA (AVR’s preamp outputs). I’ve streamed Qobuz and YouTube and watched Blu-Ray concerts through the OPPO. I’ve streamed YouTube through the computer, the OPPO, and an Amazon fire TV connected to the AVR.
My initial impressions are in line with what others have posted. Tomorrow I’ll start really listening and taking notes. I will say this now, within 30 minutes I had decided the M1200s were keepers.
Mike
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The real world power difference between the BHK300’s & M1200’s will be meaningless for most listeners in most situations (speaker efficiency, room size & characteristics). In most cases you have some serious (as in hearing loss) loudness issues if you’re driving the 300’s anywhere near their linear output limits.
I didn’t mean to post this as a response to mlundy57, apologies. I meant to respond to nortonkp.
I would imagine PS Audio uses a 4 ohm rating because that’s what the manufacturer of the ICEpower module uses to spec the module : https://icepower.dk/products/amplifier-power-modules/as-series/
I own a Mivera stereo amp that uses the 1200AS2 module and a BHK 250 and I can tell you there is more to the comparison between these two amps than the numbers of their power ratings. As Famavolat says, in the real world, the differences are insignificant to non-existent. Even with my fairly efficient Tidal Piano Cera speakers, the BHK’s sense of grip and drive eclipses that of the ICEpower amp. When I compare the Mivera 1200AS amp to my 35 watt per channel Decware Zen Torii in my second system (KEF r500’s,) the 35 watt tube amp is preferable for it’s greater sense of tonal density and better high frequency reproduction. I’m not stating any of this to disparage the potential of anyone’s ICEpower amps. In my experience there’s so much more to an amplifier’s performance than numbers on a spec sheet. The interactions between all the possible iterations of speakers with any given amplifier have so many different sonic outcomes one should look closely at how closely the reviewer’s speakers resemble yours if you want meaningful comparisons.
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Hi Photon… Thanks for your comparison of the Mivera with the ICE 1200AS2 and the BHK 250. In my opinion, one thing that is setting the M1200s apart from other implementations of the ICE modules is that Darren has engineered a way for the ICE 1200AS2 module to do his bidding, that is, Darren carefully bypasses the input stage to the ICE module and substitutes his own 12AU7 tube input stage. The ICE module then can be made to sound like the tube input stage he designed. In my opinion, this is key to the way these 1200s can sound!
So, although he voiced the M1200s with the standard/shipped PSvane 12AU7s tubes,… Well, I can’t wait to roll in some alternative 12AU7s!! I have several pairs of NOS Mullards, etc…
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The standard amongst credible manufacturers is to show the ratings into an 8 ohm load. Some manufacturers, PS Audio included, will also give 4 and 2 ohm power ratings. You might have to go to the website or manual to find it.
The best way to tell how an amplifier might “control” a speaker is to find out how much current it will deliver. This is especially important with speakers that present low or complex impedance loads to the amp. The adjectives you use all describe what an amplifier with high current capability can do.
Class D amplifiers traditionally cannot deliver the current of a quality Class A/B design. PS Audio peeps might be able to chime in about a direct comparison with the exact models involved.
Mass market manufacturers have traditionally used 4 ohm ratings to make their products appear more powerful than they really are.
Yes, I have no doubt that Darren’s input stage adds additional refinement to the basic 1200AS module. To be honest, I bought the Mivera amp on a whim because it was (to my knowledge) the first commercially available amp that used the new module and the hype (for lack of a better word) around it was over the top. I was curious if it was “all that” and if people were confusing new and different with genuinely better.
I have the Mivera amp Icedge 1200AS2 as well. They are a beast of an amp and will drive any speakers but lacks the refinement on the high freq compared to a good Class A or A/B amp. Since the M1200 has a different buffer/input stage than the stock 1200AS, it can sound very different. I would love to compare the two in my system. It would also be interesting to hear how the M1200 fairs with the BHK 250.
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I’m in the same Boat. I have 3 M700’s and can’t justify going from Transistors (OK…FET’s) to Tubes. I’ve always been a Transistors over Tubes person anyways. I mean Tubes look cool on a Chrome Chassis but at PS Audio’s justifiable double the cost of a pair of M700’s, I can’t afford it. But I also would love to compare the M700’s against the M1200’s in my system. Darren’s done a Hell of a job and the staff at PS Audio working through these CoronaVirus days to get it done while practicing all safety precautions is amazing.
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I LOVE my M700 monoblocks, but I am still tempted by a 2nd set of tubes…
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I also have M700s that I love and never thought I’d part with but I’m awaiting delivery on my M1200s.
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It’s the inconstancy of valves that troubles me. Used a pair of lovely early 60s monoblocks for years, but the drift in quality over time bugs me, as it is not something I can switch on and rely on.
Plus valves were everywhere and cheap then, and I was gifted a drawer full of NOS mullards in around 1980 “'cos no one uses valves any more”, not the case now.
Lovely sound, when all is cool, the wind is in the right direction etc. etc.
bit like vinyl really - great at its best, but too much hassle (and cost) to maintain it at this level.
Of course, if I was swimming in cash things would be different, but that would be to play with, not my main reliable system.
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Yes, thanks. I don’t know how many people are aware of it, but yes, we modify the ICE modules to bypass their input stage. Just using the off-the-shelf ICE module as other manufacturers do, does not get you the same results. Not even close as Darren proved
to me easy on in the design process.
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John Darko released a video a couple of days ago and his conclusion is clear.
You can compare different amps connected to the same speakers as most beta testers do here. That allows one to determine a preference.
You can not make any statements about different combinations unless you have actually listened to them in your own environment.
The equation may completely change on different speakers and the M700 might even sound better on certain kind of speakers.
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Very true. The longer one participates in this hobby the more one realizes that one listener’s preference is another’s anathema. There’s no substitute for listening in your own room and system.
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I hope you all don’t mind me posing a question here and pls excuse me if it has already been discussed above. I am actively seeking a BHK250 to pair with my BHK Preamp. I have seen many BHK Pre owners pairing the M700 Monos with great success. Now, with the introduction of the M1200 Monos, it has me thinking perhaps I should consider the M1200 monoblocks instead. From what I have read above, there does not seem to be any comparison between the M1200 and BHK series. Would there be any loss if one decided to go M1200 mono instead of the 250? I gather monoblocking would be 1 added benfit, but in regard to best synergy. I understand room set up and speakers play a role here, but to keep it less complicated, perhaps we may leave them out of the equation. Thank you and stay safe.
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