# The finest wound wires **URL:** \ **Category:** Cables\ **Created:** [July 9, 2023, 3:53pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-finest-wound-wires/34280 "2023-07-09T15:53:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Arenith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/arenith/32/62875_2.png) [@Arenith](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/Arenith)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2023, 3:53pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-finest-wound-wires/34280/1 "2023-07-09T15:53:01Z")
What is the most finely wound type of wire you have found? Meaning wound from fine wire with a good twist and then possibly wound again (and again) I’d like some silver(-plated) extremely finely wound wire… ---
**Author:** ![Stier2704](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/stier2704/32/272548_2.png) [@Stier2704](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/Stier2704)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2023, 8:09pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-finest-wound-wires/34280/2 "2023-07-09T20:09:01Z")
Check out Neotech wires, duelund. ---
**Author:** ![joma0711](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/joma0711/32/277666_2.png) [@joma0711](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/joma0711)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2023, 12:44am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-finest-wound-wires/34280/3 "2023-07-10T00:44:41Z")
Deuland and some other fairly excessively engineered wires are available from HiFi collective in the UK. Not cheap tough. ---
**Author:** ![Stier2704](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/stier2704/32/272548_2.png) [@Stier2704](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/Stier2704)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2023, 12:51am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-finest-wound-wires/34280/4 "2023-07-10T00:51:05Z")
Excuse me. Is it a serious question? What will the wire be used for? Why silver plated? Silver plated doesn’t sound good everywhere ---
**Author:** ![joma0711](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/joma0711/32/277666_2.png) [@joma0711](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/joma0711)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2023, 1:04am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-finest-wound-wires/34280/5 "2023-07-10T01:04:26Z")
Arenith is _always_ serious when asking these questions 🙂 …and they often kick off some interesting debates about what “audiophile extremes” are possible or not, my favourite being the air-gapped capacitors the size of a small town 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Palouse](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/palouse/32/93521_2.png) [@Palouse](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/Palouse)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2023, 1:18am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-finest-wound-wires/34280/6 "2023-07-10T01:18:52Z")
YUP, no longer the rabbit hole some of us once knew, but the black hole vortex. ---
**Author:** ![Stier2704](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/stier2704/32/272548_2.png) [@Stier2704](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/Stier2704)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2023, 1:35am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-finest-wound-wires/34280/7 "2023-07-10T01:35:26Z")
Do you mean a vacuum condenser? Few know that. I couldn’t do anything with it either, until Holger Stein from Steinmusik explained it to me and sold me 4 pieces for a loudspeaker project. These were special Nos types of Telefunken tubes that were wired with a silver wire and many fine strands of Teflon. They had a very airy character. ---
**Author:** ![joma0711](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/joma0711/32/277666_2.png) [@joma0711](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/joma0711)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2023, 1:38am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-finest-wound-wires/34280/8 "2023-07-10T01:38:25Z")
Oh no, we were talking about approaching a perfect capacitor, and tossing around the appropriate equation for capacitance for an air gapped pair of metal plates with a certain area etc. Plugging in any value more than a few hundred pF produces hilariously large metal plates 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Stier2704](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/stier2704/32/272548_2.png) [@Stier2704](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/Stier2704)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2023, 1:43am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-finest-wound-wires/34280/9 "2023-07-10T01:43:21Z")
Yes, the perfect capacitor has its plates in a vacuum. So it also has a tube and can be used as a condenser. However, the capacity is very small. If it is still interesting I would have to unscrew the speakers and take a picture. It would also be possible to unsolder the vacuum caps and measure how many pF they have ---
**Author:** ![davida](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/davida/32/94292_2.png) [@davida](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/davida)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2023, 1:20pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-finest-wound-wires/34280/10 "2023-07-10T13:20:42Z")
Naw, just make a power output variant…much higher capacity Best wishes ---
**Author:** ![flowcharts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3bc359/32.png) [@flowcharts](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/flowcharts)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2023, 8:05pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-finest-wound-wires/34280/11 "2023-07-10T20:05:10Z")
That description sounds like a request for silver plated litz wire. That should be easily sourced ---
**Author:** ![Arenith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/arenith/32/62875_2.png) [@Arenith](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/Arenith)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 12:18am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-finest-wound-wires/34280/12 "2023-07-12T00:18:02Z")
About litz, the winding should be optimized for propagation velocity at its scale, no? Some type of basket weave. ---
**Author:** ![Arenith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/arenith/32/62875_2.png) [@Arenith](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/Arenith)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 12:19am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-finest-wound-wires/34280/13 "2023-07-12T00:19:34Z")
> [@Stier2704](#): > > I couldn’t do anything with it either, until Holger Stein from Steinmusik explained it to me and sold me 4 pieces for a loudspeaker project. These were special Nos types of Telefunken tubes that were wired with a silver wire and many fine strands of Teflon. They had a very airy character. Tell. Us. More. That’s really exotic, haven’t seen a mention ever. A vacuum condenser in a crossover? The issue of small capacitance is “easily” mitigated by paralleling. Massively if needed. If cost was no issue, though apparently old vacuum condensers can be had for reasonable cost… ---
**Author:** ![Stier2704](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/stier2704/32/272548_2.png) [@Stier2704](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/Stier2704)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 1:18am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-finest-wound-wires/34280/14 "2023-07-12T01:18:30Z")
The small capacitors serve as a bypass for the actual capacitors. It improves the sound and provides finer details.Vacuum caps probably have no dielectric loss and low impedance ---
**Author:** ![joma0711](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/joma0711/32/277666_2.png) [@joma0711](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/joma0711)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 1:35am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-finest-wound-wires/34280/15 "2023-07-12T01:35:23Z")
Of course, googling vacuum condensor brings up a load of pneumatic stuff, however searching on “vacuum capacitor” gets rather more info 🙂 [https://g3ynh.info/comps/vac\_caps.html](https://g3ynh.info/comps/vac_caps.html) ---
**Author:** ![Arenith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/arenith/32/62875_2.png) [@Arenith](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/Arenith)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 12:34pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-finest-wound-wires/34280/16 "2023-07-12T12:34:54Z")
Think of this: a very fine wire (wire 0) is coiled with an optimal twist per meter ratio for the wanted parameters considered. That one is similarly coiled on itself but for the turns ratio tuned for _that_ scale. Becomes wire 1. Then, iteration… EM is not quite linear so these kind of iterative turns ratios surely need a very specific equation for the best result, with just coiling. The best two-way rejection values, all of it. There are companies selling wire that _is_ just coiled wire coiled time and again, according to _their_ recipe. Hmm, Harmonic Technologies maybe? Essentially a series of ropes tied into an ever thicker rope with turns ratio considered at every step. ---
**Author:** ![joma0711](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/joma0711/32/277666_2.png) [@joma0711](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/joma0711)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2023, 2:07pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-finest-wound-wires/34280/17 "2023-07-12T14:07:04Z")
Beyond my ken, for sure, I can’t even remember waveguide equations 😉 One for Mr @galen-gareis I would say 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Arenith](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/arenith/32/62875_2.png) [@Arenith](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/Arenith)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2023, 6:02pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-finest-wound-wires/34280/18 "2023-07-13T18:02:33Z")
Yes, Galen knows all there is to coiling wire, that’s the first steps, braiding is an art then. @galen-gareis Galen, tell us if the iterative coiling method could offer certain benefits?