# The science of cable elevators? **URL:** \ **Category:** Accessories and Tweaks\ **Created:** [July 2, 2020, 5:04am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-science-of-cable-elevators/17780 "2020-07-02T05:04:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![lufubu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/lufubu/32/82613_2.png) [@lufubu](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/lufubu)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2021, 1:10pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-science-of-cable-elevators/17780/109 "2021-05-07T13:10:01Z")
[![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/uploads/psaudio/original/3X/c/f/cf936da6e45f92982086c6c6f2683a0910f29807.jpeg "Aearo Technologies LLC ISODAMP™ Materials versus EPDM") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HRbjfZUbe8) Isodamp, the perfect material for vibration ---
**Author:** ![rower30](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/rower30/32/297137_2.png) [@rower30](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/rower30)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2021, 3:01pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-science-of-cable-elevators/17780/110 "2021-05-07T15:01:01Z")
Vee, Yes…a static electricity field is a “perfect” electric field and a permanent bar magnet is a “perfect” magnetic field. When we do specific things to either, the other property pops out and is always ninety degrees offset from the other fields magnitude. Earlier you mentioned we have a complex combinations of fileds in a cable. Reallt, at any point in time, we have to have but ONE signal or current magnitude. What gets gets that ONE signal, E or B field related, is a mess of stuff but the end result is always one thing at a time on the cable. Look at any oscilloscope trace and we will see a SINGLE “line” (real squiggly up and down) on the dv/dt scale for instance. Never will we see more than one “signal”, they all get superimposed together…remember a square wave is a whole bunch of sine waves added up. The amazing thing to me, is how we hear _everything_ that is summed as though each is happening at the exact same time. But we think, how can that be with just one signal level representing ALL of the “sounds” that we hear? You can tear apart a square wave to all the sine waves that made it and the same for any single voltage wave form. So we see one voltage but there are really many happening to make it. Physics doesn’t really exclude anything and it is like spaghetti sauce, it’s all in there. I know this, but it is still hard to wrap your head around it. As far as my take on cable elevaors, the magnetic field and electric field too, are influenced by the MATERIAL the field lines go through. If the material is different we have a change in that field from a low to high permeability materil’s properties; plastic verses low permeability metal (magnet will stick to it). We BEND the field lines by providing and easier, or harder, path of resistance or impedance to those flux lines. We know this, but what we don’t know yet is the influence on the EM wave propagating down the cable at the dielectric’s seed relative to light (all audio cables have non linear velocity of propagation at all frequencies). How is the EM “signal” change with respect to time? THAT is the question. If it isn’t changed, we have no influence. If I design a cable with a METAL foil all the way around it, and REMOVE it and test the cable each way, we DO INEED see an influence to the EM field (this example is using the electric field to change capacitance). We take advantage of this change to alter cable to have differing “impedances” to signal flow down the cable. 50, 75, 100 ohm type cables. There are approximations that drop off, the metal has to be close enough to influence the cable and at some point moved away from the cable it is _meaningless_ in real use terms but physics always hangs onto “some” meaning. When is a cable a UTP (unshielded) cable inside a metal building! We get hung up on that transition and not just with cable elevators. ALL of our equipment is in boundaries with other materials in the field lines on all the copper traces and wires in our boxes. Digital removes the material influences and analog keeps adding them up. Digital’s LENGTH is changed by them so there is no great escape, but the distortion is removed at the lengths allowed by the influences of all the materials. We need to define what we mean by meaningful! Physics in theory can _ALWAYS_ show a change but can we hear the effect? A UTP cable inside a metal building is UTP for all real purposes but to the pure theoretical physics it is shielded. Best, Galen Gareis Best, Galen ---
**Author:** ![cxp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71c47a/32.png) [@cxp](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/cxp)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 6:01am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-science-of-cable-elevators/17780/111 "2021-06-22T06:01:50Z")
I had cable lifters in my system but it killed my bass and made vocals thin. I prefer my cables on the ground, a fuller more natural sound to me. Lifters made vocals constrained and everything was too tight and focused. ---
**Author:** ![aangen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/aangen/32/295709_2.png) [@aangen](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/aangen)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 7:52am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-science-of-cable-elevators/17780/112 "2021-06-22T07:52:36Z")
Cable lifters killed my happiness. All of it. Shame on them! ---
**Author:** ![tarheelneil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/tarheelneil/32/90619_2.png) [@tarheelneil](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/tarheelneil)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 8:12am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-science-of-cable-elevators/17780/113 "2021-06-22T08:12:10Z")
And who cares, as long as your enjoyment goes up. ---
**Author:** ![Serhan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/serhan/32/192329_2.png) [@Serhan](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/Serhan)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 8:34am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-science-of-cable-elevators/17780/114 "2021-06-22T08:34:22Z")
Happy Birthday Al. You were born on solstice too 👍🏻 I reckon it must have been a double length day giving birth on solstice. ---
**Author:** ![Chops](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/chops/32/9550_2.png) [@Chops](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/Chops)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 9:52am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-science-of-cable-elevators/17780/115 "2021-06-22T09:52:54Z")
How else would they be arranged?.. I’m currently using them again. Again, their only purpose is to look neat, but they also keep the cables neat and make it easier to clean around said cables. That’s it. ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/uploads/psaudio/original/3X/b/2/b24b9e9aeed70c404bccd7945cae0b72a4d1073e.jpeg) ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/uploads/psaudio/original/3X/f/e/fe2fdece3d8ae8046bf7677610e3cc839dc080f4.jpeg) ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/uploads/psaudio/original/3X/9/b/9b23227eb325ccbe773e446af937df224c4c90e1.jpeg) > [@nortonkp](#): > > I ran an experiment on a carpeted floor using drinking glasses under Naim NACA5 speaker cable. The difference in sound was night & day as if a veil had been lifted off the speakers. Ordered cable lifts immediately. I had these cable isolators when we lived in an apartment covered wall to wall with carpet, not to mention that apartment was riddled with static electricity. We used to get zapped touching everything. I ran a plethora of equipment, loudspeakers and cables in that apartment over the 6 years we lived there, with and without the cable isolators in place, and not once did they ever make a difference in sound. Not once. > [@Photon46](#): > > Outcomes from one test of any given “tweak” do not necessarily mean that the results are applicable to all scenarios and brands of equipment. I and most who’ve been in this hobby for very long have had quite varying results with cables, vibration control footers, etc. FWIW, I had an opportunity to purchase a set of 9 Polycrystal cable elevators for next to nothing. See review link below. My experience was nothing like the reviewers, nothing about my soundstage (or much of anything) changed. Does that mean I think the reviewer is delusional? No, every system is different. I still use them though because it does help keep power cables, interconnects, and speaker cables separated when routed along the same path. > > [http://stereotimes.com/acc040901.shtml](http://stereotimes.com/acc040901.shtml) Read my reply just above this one about “every system is different”. You’ll see that I have had many different systems over the years. You do realize that if reviewers say enough “bad things” about a product/brand, 99.9% of the time, they will lose sponsor/support from said brand and will most likely never be sent products to be reviewed from that brand again, right? ---
**Author:** ![jtwrace](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/jtwrace/32/78290_2.png) [@jtwrace](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/jtwrace)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 12:24pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-science-of-cable-elevators/17780/116 "2021-06-22T12:24:38Z")
The science of them is very simple and straightforward. The cables are elegantly lifted off the ground so the cleaning person can vacuum under/around them without running them over as it would usually happen. ---
**Author:** ![Chops](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/chops/32/9550_2.png) [@Chops](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/Chops)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 1:03pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-science-of-cable-elevators/17780/117 "2021-06-22T13:03:26Z")
Yeah, pretty much. ---
**Author:** ![mark-d](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/mark-d/32/20_2.png) [@mark-d](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/mark-d)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 1:44pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-science-of-cable-elevators/17780/118 "2021-06-22T13:44:46Z")
Out of all the tweaks I have tried over the years… cable elevators are at the bottom of the list for any type of improvement in sound…as always…ymmv ---
**Author:** ![Vmax](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/vmax/32/19896_2.png) [@Vmax](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/Vmax)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 2:37pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-science-of-cable-elevators/17780/119 "2021-06-22T14:37:30Z")
I actually did some soeaker cable routing where my cables were elevated hanging from elevated amps binding post to speaker binding post. Plus moved speaker cables so they touch amp shelf in place where speaker cables are not elevated but run two feet on floor. The sound was more open if cables are not touching floor. But in both cases no specific cable elevators were employed. But elevation of speaker cables is discernible. So one might postulate the cable elevators don’t matter, in this experiment, but cable elevation does. Now on to design of self levitating cables or just selling cables after speaker position is final and length is exact for point to point hanging elevation. The cost of both of those support buying the elevators but maybe only if they have vibration isolation built in too! 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![cxp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71c47a/32.png) [@cxp](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/cxp)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 2:50pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-science-of-cable-elevators/17780/120 "2021-06-22T14:50:50Z")
I think an important question is… when the manufacturer design the cables and then listen with them lifted or on the ground… if they were voiced with them on the ground and then we lift them… we may be altering the intended voicing… i mistakenly was drawn to a more “open” sound but after time realized that everything was thin and had no impact… Crank your system to 90db and see if you still like the cable elevators! I suspect some may change their mind. In my experience what was once open when listening at 70db transformed into a compressed nightmare at 90db. FYI… live instruments are loud and should not be “focused”… they get bigger the louder you play them. ---
**Author:** ![jmilton](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/jmilton/32/25900_2.png) [@jmilton](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/jmilton)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 5:08pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-science-of-cable-elevators/17780/121 "2021-06-22T17:08:09Z")
I’m sorry, but is your power cord touching the floor? 🙃 ---
**Author:** ![nortonkp](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/nortonkp/32/65506_2.png) [@nortonkp](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/nortonkp)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 5:09pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-science-of-cable-elevators/17780/122 "2021-06-22T17:09:58Z")
My results with Naim equipment, NACA5 cables and Spendor 1/2E speakers was different than your. Raising the cables off the floor lifted a vail off the treble. Very audible. ---
**Author:** ![joe-appierto](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/joe-appierto/32/294192_2.png) [@joe-appierto](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/joe-appierto)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 5:26pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-science-of-cable-elevators/17780/123 "2021-06-22T17:26:49Z")
That’s precisely the point. I think audible results will be good/bad/none entirely dependent on the system, the physical space and the listener. ---
**Author:** ![cxp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71c47a/32.png) [@cxp](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/cxp)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 7:09pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-science-of-cable-elevators/17780/124 "2021-06-22T19:09:49Z")
Yes… absolutely… from what I’ve heard myself, a lot of tweaks work… many of them for the worse but not all. Using lifters actually had me doing weird things with speaker placement to make it work. Curiously, I don’t see as many discussions about tweaks bringing bass or midbass body to the sound. I more often see clarity and high end detail, holographic imaging. I am suspicious that genre of music and listening levels play a major part in addition to other factors. Something I don’t see people doing is changing volume and seeing how the sound changes and if it is realistic or not. Some tweaks in my experience work at low volume but are awful when you crank it…. That would be a bad sign. Typically in my experience (not all inclusive) is that more air at low volume equals bad things at high volume. I’m sure this isn’t always the case but it would be better if pressure testing was more regular. A metaphor would be if I did a tune for my turbocharged car and only use part throttle… the day you go wide open… you throw a rod and blow the engine…. I like my music more wide open throttle… ---
**Author:** ![Chops](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/chops/32/9550_2.png) [@Chops](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/Chops)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2021, 8:56pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-science-of-cable-elevators/17780/125 "2021-06-22T20:56:28Z")
Yes, because it’s a grounded cable… 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![scotte1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/scotte1/32/147_2.png) [@scotte1](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/scotte1)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 12:09am UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-science-of-cable-elevators/17780/126 "2021-06-23T00:09:34Z")
Boooo… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chops](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/chops/32/9550_2.png) [@Chops](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/Chops)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 12:01pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-science-of-cable-elevators/17780/127 "2021-06-23T12:01:01Z")
> [@nortonkp](#): > > My results with Naim equipment, NACA5 cables and Spendor 1/2E speakers was different than your. Raising the cables off the floor lifted a vail off the treble. Very audible. > [@joe-appierto](#): > > That’s precisely the point. I think audible results will be good/bad/none entirely dependent on the system, the physical space and the listener. There’s a term for this… It’s called the Placebo Effect. If you seriously believe that speaker cables with various types of thick dielectric materials surrounding them are picking up static electricity from just laying on a carpet (a.k.a. - not moving one bit), then how in the world do we get clean sound from not only speaker cables, but also low level interconnects (that in general are at least 17 feet long each) in a vehicle environment that is nothing but metal and carpet? You would be getting nothing but pink noise out of your car audio system. And yes, I’m quite familiar with car audio, so yes, I’m well aware of line drivers that boost the line level voltage up to 4, 8, and some even 13 volts. I’ve installed plenty of them over the years for people, and used a couple myself to overcome alternator whine in a couple of vehicles. Nothing to do with static electricity. And let’s not forget about all of the poly-fill, wool, felt, etc, etc that’s used inside loudspeaker enclosures that the even cheaper, smaller speaker wire is all fished through before making it to the drivers. Remember, when the woofers are vibrating frantically, so is all that filling in the enclosure as well as the wiring to an extent, so friction and static electricity central right inside the loudspeaker… If… IF that were a real issue. ---
**Author:** ![Elk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/flex015/user_avatar/forum.psaudio.com/elk/32/1240_2.png) [@Elk](https://forum.psaudio.com/u/Elk)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2021, 1:49pm UTC](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-science-of-cable-elevators/17780/128 "2021-06-23T13:49:56Z")
Skeptical audiophiles have rationalized away all manner of things exclaiming “Pacebo!” which we have later learned to be correct. We also have examples on this forum with sensitive listeners with resolving systems hearing things in DSD firmware which others did not which later turned out to be areas which Ted could improve. I thus find it reasonable to voice skepticism and to report “I do not hear it.” But to declare other’s experiences as placebo and to snap one’s mind shut is antithetical to audiophilia. This hobby is grounded in minute differences others find uninteresting and often do not even hear. [Previous page](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-science-of-cable-elevators/17780.md?page=5) [Next page](https://forum.psaudio.com/t/the-science-of-cable-elevators/17780.md?page=7)