We'd like some help with Octave

Hi, I fully support the comment on adding a “folder” view. I’ve developed a folder structure over the years based on Genre, Artist and Album but this is basically ignoring the meta data in the files. However I exactly know where to find stuff. Any Server Software that will not present that view will be a no go for me. E.g. in JRiver or MinimServer this can be easily configured. Roon did not have that option when I tested it and so it was a short test.

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Folder view is essential for me as well

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Still on target for this? Qobuz a definite for integration?

Yes and yes. We love Qobuz and it will definitely be in Octave.

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Paul, with Qobuz be functional with Bridge ii, or only available with Bridge iii (Octave compatible bridge).

Good question! The main key is will Bridge III be functional with Roon and Qobuz or will Bridge II.

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Qobuz is already functional with Bridge II through Mconnect and other control apps.

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When I am in the Collection -> Composers page, I see the alphabet and can click to get Composers with last name of A, B, etc. However when I click on X, I see the same page as if I had clicked on A. I verified in the list view, starting at W and then scrolling down that there are no composers with last name starting with X. Bug or old code at http://52.35.59.170?

Well I’ve read this entire post and clicked most of the buttons on the Octave demo. And now I have to admit that PS Audio now has me totally conflicted. I have been lusting after a DS Junior for pretty much ever since I saw it. And I was planning to purchase it early in 2019. But now I wonder…

If I were to purchase the Octave plus a Stellar Gain Cell, I’m estimating less than $3000 (including cables - you did say hundreds of $$ not thousands of $$ for Octave didn’t you?) whereas the DSJ would cost $4000. Since I already have a music server (Win 2016 running on an I7, 24TB of music and video), I would only be buying the Octave for its I2S output (which I’d presumably connect to the Stellar) and the controller functionality of Octave (which I like). I think I would get a better overall sound with the DSJ configuration, but I’m not that sure because 1) I don’t know the impact of a separate server into the DSJ/bridge vs the Octave and 2) I can’t really estimate the difference between the sound quality between the two configurations. The controller functionality is a secondary concern to SQ. So the real question is, could I hear $1000 worth of difference in SQ between the two configurations?

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I would say absolutely yes but haven’t been able to determine that for myself. I can tell you that you’ll need a DAC at least as good as DSJ to really appreciate the benefits of the upcoming server (the separate one) and DSJ is certainly superior to Stellar.

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I’m a little surprised Paul didn’t address this in his response. While I am not “in the know”, I have been reading about Octave for a while. There is the Octave software, but I don’t recall Paul saying it would be available as just software, rather it was part of hardware. The first hardware with Octave is supposed to be the Server. The server will definitely be thousands, how many? I don’t know, not sure PS Audio knows yet, but they should be close to a firm number. The second hardware with Octave will be the Bridge II replacement. It may be called Bridge III, but I think they want a new name to differentiate it since it will be designed in-house and will have the Octave software, quite a change from Bridge II. The new Bridge will probably (just guessing here) be around $1K. If there is more detail that can be provided, hopefully Paul, or someone else more in the know, will chime in.

With respect to the DS Junior, there is a brand new in sealed box one listed on this site for a significant savings.

You’re right. I think the $1000 figure I was using was for “Bridge III” (it was a very long forum post to read).

The Octave hardware is slowly coming into focus. My current idea is that “Bridge III” is an audiophile’s specialized “dream sound card” (sorry that phrase captures its essence so inelegantly) where the “computer” in which it sits only exists to get bits off the disk (or network share) and output them via I2S to a DAC (and provide control). I’d imagine that the clock in the Octave hardware would be super good so that the I2S input to the DAC is as close to what’s on the disk as is possible and timed correctly. If I’m right, then the Octave hardware would address the current weakest link in the disk to audio chain, leaving all other network system improvements to the power amp and speakers.

My only remaining concerns with Octave is OS security. I think some flavor of Linux distro was mentioned for the kernel. If a parking meter can be hacked, then I’d like some assurance that Octave is protected as much as possible. I hope the following issues are on PS Audio’s threat list in some form.

  • Will Octave boot from firmware or disk?
  • How will Linux security patches be handled?
  • Could sudo access be granted to anyone who might be on the network via ssh or other means?
  • Will there be any network facing APIs other than via port 443 (or 80)?
  • What will prevent unauthorized “clients” from accessing the APIs?

I’m getting excited about “Bridge III”. As far as I can see the only down side is the danger of deciding on DS Junior or DS Senior. I think my wife is going to kill me…

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I am not a security nor a Linux expert so I probably shouldn’t be chiming in too much but since our director of engineering, who is all of those things, isn’t generally on the forums I’ll take a stab based on then many meeting on this very subject I have attended. Security is a big deal. The last thing we want is for anyone’s network to get hacked because of us. So I know the guys have paid particular attention to this and have built it in such a way as it would be nearly impossible for a security leak. If memory serves correctly that involves the system that is open to the world having zero connection with the one inside the network. When the time comes I’ll get you better answers. But, rest assured, this has been well thought out.

Octave boots from firmware.

You’re correct. Octave will not be available as just software in the way Roon is available as just software. Octave and its architecture are based on the notion of dedicated hardware and software working together.

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And weren’t early ballpark estimates for the Octave server in the range of $3000?

Not sure about initial estimates, but back in April Paul said $6K. No idea how that number has changed in the interim, but doubt it will go down!

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Roger that. $3000 sure seemed low for a full featured hardware appliance. Thanks for chiming in.

I’ve been streaming for many years and the first device I recall was an Iomega network drive, used with Linn Akurate DS streaming DAC, which can only work with network sources (no usb, spdif etc.).

At the end of the day a server is just a hard drive with software to make it network accessible. I have a QNAP for business use and its software QTS 4.3 does vastly more than you would ever need for audio. Auralic, Linn, Naim and probably others worked this out and designed streaming software that also has the minimum of server software required to turn a hard disc into a network accessible disk. You can now get a 2TB SSD drive in the UK for about $600 and a 4TB SSD drive for about $1,500. Attach one of those and you’re done for life.

I’ve used Linn, Auralic and Naim software and the Auralic is by far the best. They use the same software over a range of products. Mine is effectively a streamer/server with 1TB SSD internal storage and currently costs about $850 new.

When I got the Linn Akurate DS in 2010 and the Iomega, at the same time dumping the CD format, I was quickly convinced that streaming (which then was server based rather than internet streaming) was software driven, did not require expensive hardware and would be optimised in high volume cheap products. The reason being is that software development is complicated, difficult and requires regular updating, so it benefits dramatically from benefits of scale. The ultimate example are mobile phones. A state of the art mobile phone made in millions of units sells for $700 (and costs about $300 to make). What do you get in low volume hifi for that price? Not much more than a SOTM power supply.

In 8 years the storage cost has shrunk spectacularly, the main source has gone from physical storage to streaming over a wifi broadband network and in 6 months I’m promised 5G so my streaming may all be wireless. The server hardware has hardly changed. Linn’s Akurate DSM is unchanged over 7 years, dCS make the reference unit that for them is an ultra cheap device costing a small fraction of their DACs. Even my Aries Mini is 3 years old and as popular as ever. I had the Aries unit that cost 4 times the price, but sold it as it was no better than the cheaper one (in fact worse as the cheaper one can take a SSD drive inside, the more expensive one needs a usb cable).

I currently only use my streamer as a server. The audio system contains its own streaming hardware and I tend to use wireless uPnP.

So I’m curious to see what PS Audio will bring to the table. Ideally it would be a streaming DAC, with or without internal storage.

Don’t think there will be a DAC in the PSA server\streamer. Think the main point is to offer a high end server to pair with the DS and TSS that tops the Bridge.

The obvious thing would be to put the streamer in the DAC. The streamer in my unit is smaller than the Bridge II and is packed with a huge amount of processing power, much of it in reserve for the future. Currently streaming to it wirelessly from my Aries server via Audirvana. DSSD - Directstream Streaming DAC?

I never bought the Bridge as it is so expensive in the UK it was better value to buy a dedicated unit and use usb.