Toe-in can make substantial differences.
They will all have a remote control just maybe not with all the switching functions of the BHK. More simple like volume and mute for example but since you only have one source at the moment that should not be an issue. Two excellant preamps made in your area of the country are Backert Labs and Aric Audio. Also some models from Rogue Audio in Pa. Might also want to look at the models from Erhard Audio in Montana or Modwright in Washington. TMR is a Modright dealer and frequently has used and demo models like the LS-100.
I have noticed that my 802D1’s sounded best without any toe-in. But the Focal’s sound better with some toe-in. So I’m assuming that the Focal’s are not as bright as my D1’s?
A couple of things you might try if you haven’t, try toeing them out five degrees and see what that does. Also in relation to the center of the Be tweeter where do your ears fall on the face of the speaker. You might try after measuring the height of your ears from the floor in your normal seating position adjust the rake angle of the speaker slightly up or down to see if that tones it down. Or easier before raising the front or back of the speaker try sitting on a cushion on top of your chair. Changing toe-in or your seating height in relation to the tweeter can have a significant effect on the character of a speakers presentation. All of these are simple and cost free adjustments.
I think it has more to do with off axis response of the speaker design than brightness. For example, PSA Aspen speakers have a smooth and full off-axis response so even without toe-in the speakers still sound fuller than speakers with a design with more direct focus. But their SQ will not turn from smooth to bright.
If Focal sounds better with toe-in than maybe the design is more pinpoint, and without toe-in the SQ may sound thinner. If it sounds bright I don’t think toe-in or out will make a major change. It will help but you may loose other aspects of SQ.
I know that The Big Bossman and Chris recommend no toe–or nearly none. But I heard some F20s that were set to cross right in front of the seated position and the owner prefers them there.
Yes, different rooms and different taste, and my FR30 are toe-in a bit too. They are pointing about one foot outside of each of my ears. Lately I listen more from 20 plus feet away in front of PC to operate Maestro, and this small toe-in really help in preserving the soundstage. ![]()
Coupla more items… interesting to read here about the importance of toe in… yes yes yes, my Focals always sounded much better with toe in. I think the reason is less energy is blasted to the side walls… lessens the reflections… IMO
I have a Prima Luna, all tube integrated… I love that unit… not as revealing as some of my other equipment I’ve owned but the tubes take the edge off and always sounded musical… except with my Focals in a hard room.
I once moved into an apartment so hard and awful, I moved 12 months later. I tried some simple things that were a revelation to me… hang some blankets on the side walls. Easy to do and you will be amazed and the total character change. Of course you can’t live like that, but it will tell you quite about your system and its room. No, it didn’t sound good LOL, but it sure did take the edge off… I just gave up and moved.
Another way to learn about your system is play some test CDs with frequency sweeps… very telling.
Oh… I never loved B&W… I wanted to… I went into a shop many many years ago ready to buy the 802s… technically, I could find nothing wrong with them except they didn’t throw a big image and they just didn’t move me… odd, they should have… I didn’t buy.
Peace
Bruce in Philly
I think I’m running into that with the Focals. I believe they are broken in now, i settled in on cables and pcm settings. New recordings sound very good, and even old recordings sound listenable.
However, vocals such as Sinatra, Presley just don’t have the inner detail or soul that they had on the 802 D1. It’s as if the vocals are on stage spread across, opposed to right at the microphone hearing every inner detail.
What confuses me is that so many articles praise the Be tweeter for exposing ‘micro details’. I guess I’m not really sure what that means.
Verify that the wiring is phase correct.
That’s exactly what it sounds like. The same thing happened to me when just one speaker was wired out of phase.
What Ron and Joe said. Even after checking the wiring, run a phase check test track. While it’s highly unlikely, there could be a small chance that one (or both) of the speakers could be wired incorrectly internally.
all is in phase… it’s just that vocals aren’t as pinpoint in location.
btw, what does ‘micro detail’ mean in terms of sound?
Okay, the in or out phase question was worth a shot.
This may be TMI but as to your question on micro-detail, there’s this:
In a loudspeaker, micro-details are the tiny, low-level acoustic variations that allow you to perceive texture, spatial placement, and realism in a recording. These subtle nuances include the scratch of a guitar pick, the breath of a singer, or the decay of a cymbal in a room.
Whether a loudspeaker can reproduce these micro-details depends on how quickly its components can move, stop, and control unwanted vibrations.
Key Factors for Micro-Detail Reproduction
- Transient Response: The ability of the speaker cone to start and stop moving instantly when an electrical signal hits it.
- Diaphragm Material: Ultra-light, rigid materials like beryllium, ribbon foil, or electrostatic panels minimize flexing and energy storage.
- Cabinet Resonance: Stiff, heavy enclosures prevent internal vibrations from blurring or masking quiet sonic details.
- Driver Mass: Lower-mass drivers respond faster to micro-signals, which is why electrostatic and planar magnetic speakers excel here.
- Crossover Quality: High-grade electrical components ensure clean signal paths without introducing phase distortions or muddying the sound.
Acoustic Phenomena that Mask Micro-Details
- Intermodulation Distortion (IMD): Occurs when larger, low-frequency waves distort the simultaneous playback of delicate, high-frequency details.
- Time Smearing: When different frequencies reach your ear at slightly different times due to poor physical alignment of the speaker drivers.
- Room Reflections: Hard surfaces in a room bounce sound around, physically overlapping and drowning out the speaker’s finest micro-details.
that all actually makes sense, thanks for the detail… i guess i’m struggling because i felt my 802 D1’s had more of that detail, but then i read that those 1st gen of diamond tweeters weren’t that refined
As many suspected, your speakers needed more break-in, and probably still aren’t completely broken in. The other missing component that probably needs tweaking is speaker setup and room treatment.
Other thing is, they may not be the right speakers for your room. I’ve owed speakers that I absolutely loved and when I moved and put them in the new room, I couldn’t get them to sound anywhere near as good as before.
What are the Focal’s strengths and weaknesses vs the 802D1? As we break free of familiar expectations, sometimes it helps to make a list.
This makes sense to me. When my speaker FR30 was set up initially, mid-range details and focus took longer than anything else to come together. It took many months to find that vocal textures and details finally.
Focal speakers are known for details, I will not be surprised they need a lot longer time to fully break in. FR30 SQ, even after three months, has improved more if the system is equally highly-resolved.
Another thing, with my FR30 the cable quality become crucial, more so than my previous $50k speakers that used silk tweeters and soft domes. To bring out the inner layers, fullness, and textures of midrange the topline cables are needed to show case the speakers’ (made that system) true ability.
Many think silver cables may be a bit intrusive on the treble. It is true for lower quality ones. But not with topline Stealth, ZenWave, and AQ power cords that all have silver component in them, not to mention Audience FRR XLR and AQ Dragon jumper that use silver conductor too (portion or all). To really hear the treble and midrange magic, I believe silver conductor in a good design would do a better job than copper. I have tried enough cables to come to this conclusion.
Unfortunately, we are talking about cables over a few thousand bucks here, and that is for each. ![]()
I’ve owned speakers that had well over 500 hours of break-in that continued to improve in the following months. The improvements may have been more subtle but crucial at flushing everything out.
This hobby can take a lot of patience and perseverance. Definitely not plug and play.
With the announcement of the new 802 D5 speaker, I have an opportunity to even swap my Focals for a pair of 802 D4s.
Honestly, not sure what to do