Yeah - I’ve also had a bit of an issue with the notion that “you can’t tell where it is coming from”. I’ve been told that by dealers and others for decades, and the first time I heard that notion I laughed in the guy’s face. Maybe because I’ve played bass most of my life. Not wanting to get into/create a to-do about that, let’s just say that if you have a single sub and put it on one side of the room, Generally Speaking, the balance will seem shifted to the sub side.
The caveat I would throw in there is that this is very much dependent upon the room and its nodes, where you are sitting, and where the sub is placed.
Both my main and desktop systems each have a single 12" sub. I believe that having a pair on each system would be an improvement, but I quite simply do not have the space
Won. Not sure how I will connect them yet though-they have RCA-only connectors. Into the pre-amp? (SGCD) alongside the balanced connection? (Or maybe just keep them on the Peachtree).
Brett, can you explain what you mean by driven high level? Is this for example with a Jensen transformer eg SS-2NR?
I have two 12" subs in my HT/listening room. I also have full range speakers. My Denon AVR drives 7.2 for movies and is Audyssey room EQ’d. For music I listen to the same full range speakers through DS Sr via an integrated SET 8 watt amp. I’d like to bring the subs into use for music listening but having trouble getting my head round how best to connect to them, since I don’t use a preamp. I’ve been researching the miniDSP to put between the DS Sr and SET amp, and also read up on the Jensen high level to RCA transformer to connect from one of the speakers. Also considered purchasing more subs - the new Martin Logan’s are controlled from smartphone/ipad which would give plenty of control from the listening chair. Or I guess I could get a preamp with sub control - haven’t even begun to research that option. I need on the fly volume control of the subs since I find classical music versus pop/jazz need different sub volume levels. I used to achieve control of both systems from my Oppo105, back when i played CD’s, but since purchasing the DS Sr I now stream from Qobuz and my CD racks are functioning as side wall diffusers! The Oppo is now only used for Blu Ray movies.
I use a Jensen to feed the non-LFE RCA input on the subs and I use the LFE RCA input from my HT preamp for HT. Works great.
You should be able to do the very same with your 2-channel amps and your Denon.
You should not need on the fly adjustment for the subs. The subs should be tuned to work with the room not the music. Sure, if you want to kick them up a dB or two because the track is lacking, OK, but I wouldn’t be changing phase or x-over willy nilly.
That’s a fair point that the subs are in fact tuned to the room and now I come to think about it, back when I used the Oppo as a preamp, I was in a multi use room and only had a single sub. I am now fortunate to have a dedicated ‘cave’ for movies and music.
As a former installer (to express it as simplistic polar opposites), usually HT subs are bigger, cheaper and have some sort of hole in their cabinets (either in the form of ports or passive drivers), and audiophiles are sealed and heavier and more expensive (leaving many audiophiles’ fondness for RELs out of it for the moment).
Do they have characteristic sound differences? I am guessing, do HT users want noticeably, even overwhelming, heart pounding sub loudness? While audiophiles want to reach the same low frequencies with a smoother, clearer reproduction and support for the vocal and mid frequencies.
Chas
I guess an AV sub would tend to have more of an emphasis on upper bass (thump) which is in line perhaps with the type of bass present in movie sound effects. Music based subs would tend to have a flatter and more extended response. Subjectively a music based sub might have a cleaner bass and would be intended to blend more with the upper bass from the main speakers rather than being set to provide a higher level than the mains (as you get in a movie theatre setup).
But of course some AV subs sound great with music and vis-versa. And I once designed a sub’ that have a contour switch on the plate amp on the back that allowed for you to have extended low bass or a bump at about 45hz for AV use.
I also don’t agree that all ported subs sound inferior to sealed subs. I’ve design ported, sealed and passive radiator subs. Ported subs can present different challenges but they can create loud, tight bass (subjectively) if designed with care. It’s often about getting a sufficently large diameter, well designed port and tuning the frequency of the port to get a subjectively good sound.
Sealed subs also present their own challenges and they are often designed with a “high Q” 2nd order high-pass filter that provides a lift in the lower frequencies and then effectively filters out very low frequencies. There is a question of physics of a small sealed box with an larger / more efficient woofer and the natural roll off of the bass that occurs in a smaller than optimum enclosure - the high Q crossover fills in the lower frequencies that might otherwise be lost by using a sealed enclosure. You can crib more efficiency from the woofer and still get a low bass extension by using the high-pass crossover to boost the bass. Nothing wrong with that of course as long as it is executed well.
Generally speaking, yeah. Ported subs give you more output/low extension for the buck, but it is possible to design them so that they aren’t boomy, as with RELs. But I’m kind of a sealed cabinet guy. Smooth, musical extension, though that tends to be at a price. No strict rules. I think its more about how they integrate with your speakers.
Not necessarily critical, as many/most sorts of music tend to have the very low end mixed in the center, so a lot of that information is roughly equal in both channels.
However, if you are primarily a classical fan, you have likely had mild heart palpitations reading the above. There are also a lot of really nice small ensemble recordings in many genres (e.g. jazz trio) that have acoustic bass (etc.) to one side or the other. A solo piano recorded with a pair of mics may also have more of the lower notes to one side, etc.
