I’ve been making a lot of changes lately, and right now, the whole system sounds pretty unbelievably good.
Anti-cable speakers cable + solid core silver xlr. This made the USB input of the Directstream sound better than the optical I was using before.
Also, taping over the VCC/power of the USB cable made a huge difference.
Holy cow . . . where has the “edit” function gone?? I’ve been misnaming the PWT for a couple posts now! Sorry about potential confusion . . .
Well, the in-depth testing has begun, now that the PWT is here on loan, and so far, IT’S the star of the show. I’m just getting started, but very early assessments show the PWT>Cambridge (DAC only)>Anthem Integrated (balanced) to be in the narrow lead. Still sticking with coax, but that will change in the next round. Also, I’m eager to swap the single-ended (now between the DS and amp) with my balanced interconnects (which, as mentioned, tonight went from the 840 to my amp). Only have one pair of balanced cables, so trading off might reveal something interesting; will they improve the DS, I’m wondering.
My very, very preliminary takes are that the PWT is an upgrade over the Cambridge transport stage, but that the 840’s DAC is really quite good – and many of you might remember the glowing reviews several years ago.
The fun continues Wednesday – after my golf tournament, pretty-much a mandatory deal for us seniors right??
Thanks again for all the input you’ve shared . . .
Ron
Ron, this is a real head scratcher for me. One of my local audio buddies has an 840C. It’s been plugged into my system many times over the years. It certainly was a fine player for the money, but side by side in my system nobody thought it sounded better than the DS, or even my earlier PWD Mk.II. I apologize for being so direct about it but this was our experience in my own system. In our case the PWD (at the time) and DS were driven by the PWT and the 840C was used as a standalone player. I’ll admit we didn’t use the PWT as a transport to the Cambridge, but even so the comparisons produced a unanimous preference for the PS Audio configurations. I think this just goes to show that you can’t predict what’s going to happen in someone else’s system, although I’m sure curious to hear more as your listening continues.
Plus 1 for tony. This is how I feel too. Something is holding the sound change back.
Al
Ron, you have not commented as to whether you tried the transport to DS to amp without going through the pre-amp section. I am assuming the Anthem allows that. Otherwise, I would try and borrow a stand alone amp to try. Joe
The Anthem doesn’t allow bypassing the pre, but I’ve two responses to that. First off, my comparisons have all run through the integrated – apples-to-apples, so even though there COULD be a minuscule improvement running direct, I’m comparing the DC and Cambridge under the same conditions. And secondly, I (naively, perhaps) was expecting an unambiguous change/improvement with the addition of the DS, and am not committed to throwing too much added expense/effort into wringing out that last iota. My take: it’s better (for me, in my system) or it’s not, end of story, move on. (I DID preface all this with the warning that I’m not an audiophile!)
But having said that, I don’t mean to discourage suggestions here, because the DS deserves my best efforts to conduct realistic tests . . .
Tony, your head-scratching MAY just reflect a much more sophisticated system than mine? My Gallos are precise and revealing, but maybe my listening style – acoustic singer/songwriter stuff a lot, at moderate volume – doesn’t push the gear to limits enough to discern subtle differences among components. Maybe . . .
More trials this evening!
Ron
Try the toslink connection. Myself and a few others feel it is best with the DS.
I, too, am puzzled by this. I would expect the DS to slam dunk the 840C. Could there be a problem with this particular DS unit? Is there anywhere nearby that you could go to compare yours with another DS DAC? If you live near forum members, they might be a resource for you. Your system is plenty good- you clearly heard the difference that a premium transport made. Your choice of music gives plenty of opportunity for making distinctions unless it is recorded in the current over compressed style used to make iPODS sound better. If you have some 60’s or 70’s singer songwriter material it should be primo stuff for listening. Newer stuff is also great but you run into the era of nasty mastering sometime in the 90’s. You should not have to add power conditioning etc to hear the difference between the two DACs. I really wonder how your DS stacks up beside another DS. Something is out of whack here and it’s not your ears and probably not your other gear. Perhaps your DS is at an “angry” stage of the break in cycle. Some have commented that they had some serious backsliding of the sound at different points in time.
“Also, taping over the VCC/power of the USB cable made a huge difference.” - coli
So I’m not nuts? (or both of us are…)
@wglenn, good point. Ron did say this DS was pre-owned, but one wonders if it was fully cooked before he got it. There were certainly periods of hand-wringing in the early stages of new DS burn in. I also agree that Ron’s system sounds plenty good enough for this kind of listening assessment.
Here is my view and no replies needed . First off I am a cable agnostic . Some do sound bad but the rest sound good. Period .
Optical is fine and may be better in certain systems. Being or not being an audiophile with credentilas is bull. If there was something to hear he would. Maybe it’s the speakers or something keeping his complete system from showing the changes . If we played the DS in our cars over the fatory radio we would not notice it.
Glen when you say tape the wires what do you mean this has me wondering. Is it a foil type tape ??? If this is a chip or what ever I would like to know. Also when it comes to cables the same cable that is bad may not be in other systems. The how or why I do not know.
I only have three so called audio usb cables. One is audio quest diamond something with a battery with it. The other two are Paul,pang red ones a 3 foot and 5 foot. Others I have are from audio componies but between them all there is no change my old ears can tell. But bad ones are easy to hear . Interconnects is the same some good some just bad.
(Golf tourney pushed back a couple hours to let the rain move on . . . so time for another quick post)
Again, thank-you for all the thoughtful, encouraging comments I’ve gotten! Nice to be associated with folks who combine a passion, knowledge, and the willingness to share.
A couple things: don’t get me wrong, the DS sounds great. If I walked into an audio showroom with $x for a new system and heard the DS/PWT along with a similar amp and a pair of Gallo Stradas, I’d have my Visa card on the counter in a heartbeat. So, it sounds really, really fine – just not leaps-and-bounds better than my 840c (or ANY, to my 66 year-old ears). But lovely, quite lovely . . .
I doubt, then, that it’s an uncommon unit – HOWEVER, the burn-in issue may be significant, so I will (now that I have the PWT to use for a while), run the DS for several more hours before making any final determinations. And by the way, I live near Grass Valley, CA, an hour-plus northeast of Sacramento; that match any DS owner’s zip code?
Not sure what was meant by “taping over the VCC/power . . .” suggestion; there’s no USP cable in use, just me and a bunch of spinning CDs.
And finally, for now, yes the mastering of rebook files ranges from unlistenable to near-sublime, but I have a host of discs that are near-and-dear, well recorded/mastered, and will keep me satisfied for a long time, so all I’m trying to do here is to make sure I’m getting (at least almost) the very-best out of them I can. (Then once we wrap up this thread, you folks can make your pitches for getting into that whole computer thing!)
Oh, sorry, but there’s a tad more: last night I downloaded a Mark Knopfler WAV file (higher rez than rebook, but not much) and burned it to a DVDr – holy gads, bloody awful!! Sounded like a 60’s transistor radio in the shower. Tried with both the DS and the 840; no differences. Now obviously, I did something really wrong in the process – just another reason I plan to stick with my CD collection.
Ron
ronritcher saidThe 840 can play high res DVDs?I downloaded a Mark Knopfler WAV file (higher rez than rebook, but not much) and burned it to a DVDr – holy gads, bloody awful!! Sounded like a 60’s transistor radio in the shower. Tried with both the DS and the 840; no differences.
Al - we are referring to blocking the +5v and gnd of a USB cable. Any effects are most likely related to breaking ground loops or keeping as much noise out of the DS as possible. May not be a factor at all depending upon your source device.
Ron - The DS may need many hundreds of hours of break in to reach it’s potential. If you are comparing to a PWT you would likely have to do extensive hardware/software modification to get a PC to sound that good. There’s nothing wrong with spinning CD’s!
ronritcher said
there's a tad more: last night I downloaded a Mark Knopfler WAV file (higher rez than rebook, but not much) and burned it to a DVDr -- holy gads, bloody awful!! Sounded like a 60's transistor radio in the shower. Tried with both the DS and the 840; no differences. Now obviously, I did something really wrong in the process -- just another reason I plan to stick with my CD collection.Not necessarily. Some hirez downloads sounds aweful for a fact.
It would be surprising if the Cambridge unit played anything other than redbook (and also if it accepted DVD-Rs), but it’s certainly possible it has a digital input that would accept high res from the PWT (my old Wadia 860/861 only plays CD’s but its digital inputs go to 96/24). I don’t know this model.
Did you download the file as a wav or convert it from another format? HDtracks offers wav downloads but if it was downloaded as a FLAC or something else and then converted to wav something could have gone wrong in the process.
There is an old (and somewhat messed up, at least as displayed on my work PC) “How To” on burning high res files to DVD-R for the PWT at http://www.psaudio.com/ps_how/how-to-burn-audio-dvds-using-windows-vista/ Is that basically what you did? I seem to recall in the past some issues with getting the right UDF format but it sounds like your PWT is reading the discs.
I think we’ve given this topic a thorough discussion, so I’m stepping back for a bit to:
Let you folks get on with something else.
Continue to burn-in the DS and test it in as many configurations as I'm able.
Contemplate taking the DS to a SF Bay Area dealer for some A/B comparisons (last resort and highly unlikely, because I have no reason to believe that there is anything wrong with my copy in the least.)
I will gladly accept further comments/suggestions, but hesitate to solicit more, lest I overstay my welcome. I have plenty to chew on as it is! Once I’m sure that the DS has had a full burn-in and I’ve reached some conclusions, I’ll share here; likewise, I will return to report any “eureka” moments along the way.
Thanks again . . .
Ron
Last thought
as I own a DS it sounded good from day one. I am not true a true beleaver of burn in.
If it does not sound good then let it go
as some make claims of big changes in burn in I doubt you will. But I am glad to own one and gald you did try to improve your high end audio experience with one.
Al
I have been following this thread with interest. I agree with others here that the kit used by the OP should (at face value) be more than fine for hearing the specific qualities of the DS. Where I am struggling, is to hear that the Cambridge CD player performs better as a stand alone than the Cambridge as a transport feeding the DS. Like @Alrainbow, I do not think that burn-in is necessarily the answer, as for me the basic sonic signature of the DS was apparent from the start.
For the record, I also think that Cambridge Audio makes excellent good value for money products but IMHO they are not in the league of the DS. I use a Cambridge 751 Blu-Ray universal player for playing the odd CD, BD and DVD feeding the DS by coax and it makes a fine transport. (Considerably better than the Oppo 105 I demo’ed at the same time) I would say that a direct comparison with my Bryston BDP-2 on the same redbook material shows the computer audio to sound considerably superior.
I have not heard the Cambridge 840 but I do know how the 751 sounds used stand alone in my system. Being single purpose, I would expect the 840 to be better than the 751 but would also expect there to be a family resemblance. In any case, listening to the Cambridge whilst OK does not come close to the revelatory sounds I get from the DS so this leads me to conclude that perhaps something is awry with the OP’s DS or there is some system synergy issue that is far beyond my humble comprehension.
PS : I just read a What Hi-Fi review of the 840 which indicated that they liked the up sampling mode because it appeared that more detail resolution was apparent with that mode switched on. As the DS has detail resolution in spades, maybe that is the problem???
Cheers,
Chris
Couple of things I’d look at. First the cardas digital cable. If you have the PWT/DS combo you really should try it with either a really good HDMI like the PS Audio one or a really good AES/EBU , next I’d try something other than the Benchmark Cables…doesn’t have to be expensive just good. And lastly are you leaving the units powered up? I find they suffer a lot from being turned off. Even in standby they take a while to get right but if you’re turning them off from the back… Days to get back to 100% And I’d suggest that the volume control on the DS be at 100% And the attenuator isn’t engaged.
if none of that makes it sound way better than your Cambridge then move on.
Benchmark sells very solid cables. They are not holding the system back.