…and another: Another Review of the DS DAC
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LOL we’re back to coffee again! Most be co-incidence that I ordered a Jura X8 only yesterday …
How bizarre… Doing a review of yale today?!? The DS has been totally transformed since then.
I couldn’t tell what software version he actually started with only that he did the down conversion to Yale before installing the current software. Can’t imagine the UK distributor had a unit in stock old enough to still be loaded with Yale and sent it out that way.
I guess you have to fabricate an extra voltage source for the signal ground (or middle), whose noise would add to common mode noise, and this appears as extra noise on the unbalanced outputs especially. DS Jr. must be free from such defect i reckon…
The transformer takes care of providing an appropriate output ground and single ended outputs still can have about the same common mode noise from the DAC as the balanced outputs (cable, etc. permitting.)
The inputs to the transformer don’t have a connection to the (non-existent) middle rail. The digital switches provide a balanced input to the transformers so things aren’t a problem in the sense you mean.
The common mode output of the digital switches is set by an explicit input to them and indeed noise there would not be great. That input level is set with a low impedance resistor divider between the two rails with caps to nuke HF noise so it’s noise shouldn’t be a problem.
Because the Jr uses a differential opamp output it does indeed need a bipolar supply and any ground noise (after appropriate filtering), etc. can be a problem (there shouldn’t be much). The differential opamps simulate a transformer but aren’t as good as a transformer in this regard.
I use a quicksilver tube pre… $1,200, with Quicksilver Monoblocks, and the pre does wonders to the DS.
I am happy that you find it works well for you. There seems to be no balanced xlr connections in them though, thats´s a no go for me.
Looks like you truly don’t have an agenda by starting this thread. Must have made your week and keep up the great work.
Many of the forums on ASR are beyond bizarre. The overriding theme is that everything sounds the same and the high end audio industry is a hoax. What’s really strange is this seems to be the hobby and passion for many of them. What would sustain an interest in a hobby where one type of item you’re interested in should and must be the same as another? Seems their purpose (if you could call it that) is to push this message to the uninitiated and those who don’t believe this to be true?
Was bored and my morbid fascination with this topic let me to a ASR forum titled “Serious question-How do you deal with people thinking a DAC has a SOUND SIGNATURE?”
Some do disagree and are dismissed as uninformed and delusional.
I find this fascinating - it’s as if coexisting with someone who believes DAC’s sound different is a learned life skill…
I think a lot of what we’ve read in this thread relates directly to speaker design. Do we hate on speakers who don’t measure perfectly flat? No, in fact, we know perfectly flat speakers don’t sound as good as the graphs would imply. That’s why great speaker designers don’t create perfectly flat speakers. Just because it doesn’t measure perfectly, doesn’t mean it doesn’t sound good. And at the end of the day, I couldn’t care less how a DAC measures, I just want it to sound good. And the Directstream delivers on that immensely. If you truly care more about how a DAC measures, that’s fine, but leave the rest of us who care about sound quality alone.
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@cudfoo Very few of the posts on ASR are based on either science or logic. If the ASR folks truly believe that all DACs sound the same, then why measure DACs at all if those measurements have no effects on sound quality - good or bad? It is also clear that using SINAD as the primary index of DAC quality is not based on scientific evidence correlating SINAD with sound quality in DACs. And if you measure first and listen second (or not at all), then any presumed objectivity related to measurements is blown to oblivion by biased listening.
ASR “reviews” are biased and carried out with pseudo-scientific precision without actually being based on measuring the “right stuff.” We have already given them much more attention than they deserve, but it remains important for PS Audio owners to recognize that the legitimate criticisms directed at ASR reviews are not simply emotional overreactions that result because we “can’t handle the truth.” In fact, it is ASR that can’t handle the truth regarding musical reproduction because they don’t even know where to look - or listen.
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Yes it’s becoming an unhealthy compulsion. We all keep hitting the ASR troll wasp nest here and the wake the irritating objects out of their ignorant slumber. I’m going to try my best to stop now.
I was thinking about Amir’s short listening “review” in light of my own experience, and I think it probably isn’t possible for those ASR guys to get a good sound out of it. My DS took around 800hrs to really sound right, it takes a couple days of settling time to sound nice after I’ve been away, and the quality of USB or (better) I2S cable, digital cable, power cord, and conditioner/distributor/regenerator, are extremely crucial. When I first got it, and sometimes when I’ve turning on cold, it didn’t sound good, and that’s nothing to say about cables. If you believe that you can get a good audition with a few minutes listening on a brand new DS using cheap cabling and bad power, it’s going to sound kind of bad and your review is extremely limited and flawed.
Yes that’s all true but the bigger issue is they’re really not all that interested in listening to it or to music for that matter. They live in a strange alternate universe. It seems they really get off on disrupting other audio forums with their flat earth views. It’s hard to resist sometimes - we all get baited into these futile, pointless “discussions”. Bottom line is you can’t reason with stupid.
So, I haven’t exactly studied the asr site, but I have read a few threads at this point. There is some worthwhile stuff there…
There is also a lot of ironic stuff I have noticed. The abx knife cuts both ways, and I don’t see people talking about reliably picking the better measuring devices based on abx testing. Seriously. This is important. You can’t ask people to submit to abx testing… And not be able to come back with a response showing that your abx tests have shown your measurements to have predictable abx testing results. Please show me links if this exists and I’ll gladly retract this post.
I’d pay to see a shoot out where a group of die hard objectivists listen first, document there measurement predictions, and then find out how close there predictions correlated with the objective measures.
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Hey guys, don’t wanna open this can of worms again, just a TECHNICAL question!
Since most agree CABLES made a difference to bring down noise and interference, etc… and we’ve all heard it… could it be that a different cable used in those measurements yield different results?
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Let this dog die and leave it alone.
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Also, please leave it alone. Believe only your ears.
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Yes, don’t feed the trolls!