Thanks Paul… I appreciate the way you do not mince words. I bought the last NPC you had last month. It came to me with a problem, so it’s back in CO (arrived today).
My dealer finally got me to get a TT rig (after 18 years of persistence) which I’ve had for a couple of weeks, but can not use due to the NPC being in CO. I am rethinking my NPC purchase more and more now, came broken, having its booty kicked. Perhaps I should get a Stelar, but I am back to what to do for an ADC. I neither have room, nor monies for both (I have a wife 
).
Any plans for another ADC integrated into a product? An analogue preamp for example? It really was an excellent idea (and, I expect, implementation too) 
…or is it too specialist and niche still?
I’m not in a position to judge if the Stellar Phono Stage kicks booty over others. It does over the two I’ve had and am familiar with. I keep going over my reference pressings and am very much enjoying what I hear from Darren’s creation. If someone asked me, I could certainly recommend it based on its merits.
However, my intent in originating this post was also to determine if digitizing what comes out of the phono stage could be fed to an ADC and then to a DAC with comparable sound quality to what some members claim a preamp produces.
As someone mentioned above, PSA once had an analog to digital converter but it’s no longer in the lineup. It would be nice to know if there was not enough of a market for it to be profitably produced. Some members apparently use it.
The alternative is an inexpensive ($16) ADC easily available through Amazon. It certainly makes my system sing with Darren’s phone stage and Ted DSD DAC as its anchors.
And maybe that is all that is needed for those of us without other needs for a preamp. Maybe it cannot be improved upon and going A to D does not have the complexity of going from D to A. Some maintain that a preamp improves on SQ, but it’s hard to know for sure without hearing and comparing the same chain with an ADC instead of a preamp.
Curious person that I am, I wanted to know if any forum members have the right components to test the proposition of ADC vs. preamp with a phono stage feeding it and a DAC receiving its signal.
If you like things the way they are, why not just get a decent ADC? A decent one, a Tascam DA-3000, is also a recorder - so you can rip your vinyl to everything up to DSD.
Other than that - why you would want to digitize a beautiful analog source only to immediately go D to A again, I cannot get my head around. I can tell you any decent pre will sound better. Just keep it analog. Running it through an A to D simply cannot improve it, even if it is going to a good DAC afterward.
And no - the recordings do not sound as good as the all-analog chain.
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Thanks for that feedback. You’ve heard ADC recordings from analog with a decent ADC and prefer the SQ of the all analog chain. That is the kind of information I wanted to hear about. I hope to hear from others who’ve done what you’ve done and get their take.
I appreciate your mentioning the Tascam DA-3000. I’ll look into it. Thanks again.
badbeef is correct. My situation is “Special” because I’m “Special”. Without the proper EQ curve where I use MiniDSP and my own curve (primarily boost below 100Hz & 10kHz with the proper roll off rate, my Sealed Box Bose 901’s would be truly a all highs, no lows, it must be Bose. Nails on a chalkboard scenario.
But I could only understand the reason you want to digitize the signal, and capture it to a file later playable on portable equipment. That makes total sense. But to digitize it for playback through what I’m assuming are “Full-Range” Speakers make absolutely no sense. Without denigrating the original Poster (I really really really hate acronyms), could you please literally draw it out for us ? Again, I’m not trying to be a Smart Ass, but if it’s help you seek with a purchasing decision, the folks here and especially on the phone at PS Audio (TJ is awesome) would be your best go to. Especially when the “Boss” has already chimed in twice. 
Beef is right.
This here is probably one of the best needledrops made:
It’s made of a meanwhile very rare audiophile LP reissue which I own.
I compared the needledrop (which I also have) on DIrectstream DAC with the LP on my rig and the LP beats the rip hands down. (although the ripped vinyl rig is on top quality level). But for sure this comparison still is a little apples/oranges due to different vinyl rigs used and Ted‘s Obsidian DAC would be on another level than the DS, too.
Beef‘s also right with preamps…if you didn’t hear improvements yet, you didn’t try the right preamp or your setup is not on the level getting those differences.
The last sentence also is the clue for you I’d say. If you are fine with the current quality level of your setup and you don’t hear differences between yes/no preamp or analog/ripped LP‘s that’s fine…then those differences don’t existin your setup and you can get very happy with that fact. It’s just not that those differences don’t exist in other setups…but that’s not important to you as long as you don’t want to spend the money to upgrade a whole setup.
By the way: as nice as this recording is, the hype within the linked text about it being one of the best sounding hires files on their site is a complete mystery to me.
I have this one :
What is the difference ? I’m assuming the one I have is DSD transfer @256fs of the “original master tape”. I purchased the 64fs version.
Depends when the transfer was made. All the Jamal Argo tapes burned down several years ago to my knowledge, so it might be from a second generation or digital copy. The other one is from a vinyl rip probably made of the original analog master by Grundman. Which is better probably depends on the mastering skill and chain of the engineer I’d say.
I also have the original first pressing and also like this better than the rip (but it’s different). I so far also didn’t like the HDTT transfers I tried much, imo they don’t compete with the best US reissue companies.
Would be interesting if you had both DSD transfers to compare.
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I think badbeef understood what I was asking, although I can see where there may be confusion. It’s not complicated but I think the way I originally described the chain was confusing if not downright wrong.
You can go:
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Phono stage to preamp to amp, also connecting the output of your DAC to your preamp. Two sources switched by your preamp. It means buying a preamp, which can be costly.
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Or you can go phono stage to ADC then to DAC coax input, with computer streams and files also going to the DAC via USB. Two sources as well but switched by your DAC instead of the preamp. You don’t have to buy a preamp, although you do have to buy the ADC. Presumably, a good ADC is cheaper.
If you are analog only it’s a no-brainer. You need a preamp. If you are digital and analog, and your DAC can switch as the DSD DAC can, then you have a choice as to what component does the switching.
If the SQ from digitizing the analog signal is not as good as an all-analog signal, as badbeef maintains, well then getting a good preamp is necessary.
If, on the other hand, the SQ from digitizing the phono stage and feeding it through first the ADC then the DAC produces sound quality going to the amp that is comparable to that of the preamp output going to the amp, well, then, an ADC can save you money.
Or, I should say, may save you money, depending on what a good ADC costs. That is the main reason for digitizing analog and listening to it live instead of recording it.
PS Audio obviously saw some merit in what may have been, I’m not sure, an ADC unit like the one I’m talking about. And most likely it was for recording your vinyl for posterity. That it may have been good enough to listen to live may have doomed it from a business perspective. It’s conjecture since I have not found a narrative why PSA killed it.
Regardless, all is good with the world. In time I’ll be able to get a BHK preamp and test what I’ve just described in my own environment. My big ears will tell me
Thanks for the feedback. I don’t have a preamp. I currently have no way to evaluate the value of an added preamp or how all-analog compares with ripped analog. That was the point of the post, most likely made badly. It was why I was seeking information from members who have done what you and badbeef have done. I’m glad you shared your experience.
At this point, what I know for sure is that with Darren’s phono stage the same pressings I hear on ripped analog sound better, much better than their digital cohorts. But, then, to those that prefer vinyl that does not come as a surprise
My rig is pretty revealing. Darren’s phono stage, Ted’s DAC, Bascom’s 250 and Focal 1038s. The new generation Technics has a Lyra Delos cart. I’ll take the feedback from the forum and, if warranted, seek approval from the home budget committee for the BHK preamp. Then I can tell for myself. In the meantime, the experience by the HiFi family is valuable.
You’re welcome! With that setup you’ll hear all that!
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So the difference isn’t $6. I’ll check with my Audio Club friends if the have the Acoustic Sounds version on DSD.
If an ADC is needed in the system then the NPC is truly a great piece. I was just comparing phono stage for phono stage. And while the NPC has a great phono stage, it’s just not anywhere near as good as what Darren pulled off in the Stellar. That is truly a work of art.
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Still too niche. I always loved the idea of the ADC integrated into a pure analog phono stage but our community didn’t agree. Contamination! They cried. And, I get it. Had I to do it over again they’d be separates.
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Paul, I think you could not be righter (newly coined word or bad grammar?) on both counts. Darren’s handiwork is indeed a work of art. He must be walking on cloud 9 after that accomplishment and the recognition it’s gotten.
I also think that an ADC separate would have been the way to go. Doing it would no doubt be a niche product, but if properly explained and marketed, and with SQ results that warrant it, there might be more takers than anticipated at the moment.
It would not be a product for anyone who prefers an uncontaminated analog path and that path has a passionate following. However, I don’t mind contamination if there is a clear benefit for at least a segment of the market. Those who swear that less is more, and you were once in that camp, would appreciate it. Those with the brilliant DSD DAC who can switch with it would as well.
The niche market, even if gauged liberally, might still not be big enough to make an ADC separate a wise business investment. I can understand that. But a high quality ADC separate could also present a business opportunity and grow the market as well as PSA’s lineup. There is no reason why contamination and purity cannot amicably coexist, if there are benefits for both approaches.
As you probably know, I’m not dogmatic. Marketing is all about segmentation. Identifying the segments and evaluating their pros and cons is the ticket. Every time I did that in my career I was at peace that I did not leave anything on the table.
Thanks for your feedback. PSA is on a roll. I’m a beneficiary and a booster. I could not be happier that you are doing well.
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Ordered a black Stellar yesterday! James is a pleasure to work with!
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Yes he is. @jamesh is my go to guy!
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