Digital Recording of LPs: DSD or PCM

Thanks Elk. A few questions: 1) What does the FS after dB stand for?

  1. So peaks that do not reach over “0dBFS indicated” means not over the 0 mark on the DA-3000’s meter? Seems strange to me that the 0 mark is way over to the right with only 2 markings above, “+3” and “Over”.

  2. If I leave the reference level at the default of -16dBFS will that be the level on the meter at “0dBFS indicated”?

I know I should just start recording without any concerns, but just curious.

FS = FullScale. When recording PCM, 0dB on the DA-3000 is 0dBFS. It means the absolute top/highest level for PCM. If you are getting +3dBFS you are over driving the ADC chip and will get distortion.

It gets more complicated as it is different when recording in DSD.

DSD peak-meters are aligned to 0dB DSD. The DA-3000 meters switch over to this mode when you change it to record DSD.

0dB DSD is defined as -6dBFS PCM. However, DSD final masters can have very brief levels as high as +3.1 dBDSD (that is, -2.9dBFS PCM). When in DSD mode, the DA-3000 +3dB level shows the maximum level allowed by Scarlet Book specs. (Scarlet Book is the SACD equivalent of CD’s Red Book).

Leaving the reference level at -16dBFS or changing it does not change the input level itself or the levels shown on the meter. As I recall, it changes at what level the meter LEDs change color. Try settling the reference level at -20dBFS, record something, change the reference to -9dBFS and record the something with no other changes, and compare what the meter does while recording and during playback of the two tracks.

Perhaps Ted will chime in. He is very good at explaining levels, much better than I. :slight_smile:

If this causes confusion ignore it :slight_smile: Also I’m not describing recorders - I have no experience there, I defer to people like Elk that have practical experience with recording.

Elk did fine describing levels, except perhaps that describing 0dB DSD as -6dBFS PCM:

0dBFS DSD from an SACD player will be the same level as 0dBFS PCM from that same player (with rare exceptions.)

0dBFS DSD (on SACDs) is -6dB from the full rails, i.e -6dB from what you would get with all 1’s or all 0’s. Another way of saying this is that 0dBFS DSD on SACDs is at the 50% modulation level. A single bit sigma delta modulator has more distortion and becomes more unstable the closer you push it to the rails. By defining 0dBFS as a 50% modulation level you can design single bit sigma delta modulators that are stable up to about +3dBFS.

I keep saying DSD on SACDs because tho 50% is Scarlet Book, other DSD devices aren’t necessarily Scarlet Book and aren’t necessarily at the same levels. - DSD from various DAC chips can be (and often are) at higher modulation levels (since they use multibit sigma delta modulator and multibit sigma delta modulators are more stable than single bit modulators for SACDs and hence follow different rules.)

Thank you, Ted, especially for clearing up that 0dBFS DSD is the same level as 0dBFS PCM, and that the “extra” 6dB of DSD is actually above 0dBFS. I appreciate your correcting my misunderstanding. It is hard enough to keep this stuff straight when I have it right, much tougher when I screw it up.

I only have a passing knowledge of Scarlet Book SACD specs. I was unaware that DSD DAC chips can additionally vary. Neat stuff.

Wow! Thanks guys. Yet another glimpse of a subject that I didn’t even know was out there! You two covered some critical concepts that are very helpful to me. I already knew the part about making a recording that stinks, though…4_gif

Elk, one thing you mentioned: “Typically you will not use the input level control on the DA-3000. The preferred method is to control the output level of your source feeding the DA-3000. This can be a microphone preamp, board console/mixer, or ADC.”

My source feeding the DA-3000 is my preamp, currently connected with the tape out jacks, and of course the volume control has no affect on those outputs. There are two sets of main outs, one goes to the power amp and I could use the second to the DA-3000. Would that be a better choice?

Typically, the volume controlled preamp main out will provide you with better sound. But try the REC out and adjust input volume on the DA-3000 and see what sounds best.

The second may be better on a practical basis as you can monitor the source output through your main speakers, changing the listening volume if you choose to do so. If you use the second set of main outs you may forget, change the volume, and mess up your recording.

Regarding ripping in PCM or dsd it’s a choice , but if your intention is to retain the vinyl soind it’s dsd and for this it’s why almost all vinyl rips done now are dsd. PCM while it’s sound is still music and I love this soind as well it’s not analog at all. It has byte or almost snaps mAking it like analog . Now I M not saying analog or vinyl is not dynamic it’s just smoother and has less snaps or fast peaks. It’s why the better dsd pLYback like a direct stream does can be plYed louder . Mytek also makes a good ad converter as well. Pro line. From there , there is some crazy price stuff real ultra high end studio stuff.