Do we all really hear the same ???


#1

As I have attended many mini meets I have come to the conclusion we tend to not hear the same .

i very much would like to discuss this here.

Perhaps I can or others can up load somewhere or email files to compare . Simple good redbok is fine as examples.

During the mini meets for me and others weather they are women or men the results are the same .

It seems to me that we look for different ques to pick out for each of our very own way of knowing if it’s good or bad , right or wrong

my theory is put ten people in one room and you will not yield the same result from all. Not saying it will be ten , but the results will be learning that we all do not hear the same.

One thing I note is the ones who are mucisions or attend live events do not observe the same way. It’s not about being right or wrong , it’s about hearing the same period.

I very much would like others here to take part in this thread and inout there observations of them selves .

I look forward to all observations and participants in this.

Thanks in advance

Al


#2

Given normal hearing, we physiologically hear essentially the same.

What we experience when listening to music varies tremendously depending on personal preference and experience. Do you play an instrument, attend live concerts, listen to pop or classical, etc.

When it comes to audio, there are even more preferences. For example, do you relish recording artifacts such as imaging or do you not care? Do you prefer the coherency of single driver or prefer full range multi-driver speakers?


#3

As you alluded to one obvious thing is that our hearing is a reflection of our experiences - if you have a lot of experience with, say, playing the piano (or for that matter being around pianos that are being played) then you are often much more sensitive to the nuances of a piano performance and/or the differences between various kinds of pianos. This will help you know when a system is correctly reflecting some particular kind of piano and where things might be wrong with much more certainty than someone that doesn’t have as much experience on a piano.

Having played in a band thru out my primary education lets me hear many details of various brass, wind and percussion instruments that others seem to miss. On the other hand I don’t have nearly as much experience with strings since my experience with them is solely formed by the relatively fewer times I’ve heard them live and so I miss a lot of detail in the details of recorded strings that others clearly hear.

A concrete example: when tests were being done with people’s ability to distinguish various shades of color a surprising (at least to me) result was that in some cultures which don’t have words in their language to differentiate, say, various shades of blues vs greens they don’t perceive those differences at all.

Another example, a cappella singers and performers on instruments with a continuous ability for frequencies (e.g. stringed instruments without frets or the trombone) will use just intonation when there aren’t any equally tempered instruments being played too. In just temperament the pitch of a note depends on whether it’s, say, the third of a chord or the 7th of a cord. In equal temperament a particular note always has the same pitch. For example intervals of a seventh are somewhat flatter in equal temperament than they are in just temperament (http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/scales.html has much more detail including examples.) Singers that rarely sing without, say piano or organ accompaniment, don’t seem to hear the differences and are often off pitch on certain notes when they called upon to sing a cappella (e.g. in a barbershop quartet or choir.) Having spent significant time in a barbershop chorus these differences are quite jarring to me but they don’t seem to matter to some others I know.

[edit: I see that Elk types faster than I do :) ]


#4

Temperments and intonation are a great example. In additional to voice and strings, woodwinds and brass can easily bend the pitch to just intonation and do. We are particularly sensitive to playing a minor third a little sharper and a major third a tad more low.

I did not think of Barbershop. The distinctive voicings of Barbershop ring with tremendous power and energy when precisely in tune. Magical.


#5

The latest Internet hype shows that we even see the same thing differently. For those, who spend less time in various social networks I attached the photo of a dress which some see as blue&black, some as blue&orange and some as white&gold.

While it’s understandable what happens, it’s still not clear why.

dress-bb-wg-01.jpg

Just in case. I see it as blue&black. The rest of my family as white&gold.


#6

Wired has a nice article on the science of the color of the dress: click

I am not aware of a hearing equivalent.


#7

White gold here. Elk i think was one of the ones that made me spawn this thread. I hear so differemt than most here and other places. At best i get some that hear some of what I do. But it’s clear to me I am idd man out. This puzzles me. But in reading many forums it’s obvious I think different too. The more I read about us in audio the more it comes to me We are all so different. Is it learned over our life or is it just a born thing. In raising my children I give many learned behavior I never had to opertunity to have. Music, sports , family activities. In the hope he can be more like the seeming majority of people

Al


#8

Hey the dress is now blue and gold


#9
Elk said

I am not aware of a hearing equivalent.


We were not aware of so dramatic visual differences until two weeks ago :D

And another article about the memory. http://www.newyorker.com/science/maria-konnikova/idea-happened-memory-recollection

We remember differently and do not even know what we remember, we see differently, we taste differently, we smell differently, our temperature perception is different and varies. Why should we hear the same?


#10
Alekz said We were not aware of so dramatic visual differences until two weeks ago :D
As dramatic and virally distributed, no. But a well known, long studied phenomenon.

If you come across a hearing analog, let us know.

I doubt anyone disputes we hear differently; see above for examples.


#11

Hearing vs listening

http://www.academia.edu/1269970/What_do_we_hear_when_we_hear_music_A_radical_phenomenology_of_music


#12

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/the-unique-vibrations-of-your-skull-affect-how-you-hear-music-654940/?no-ist

OR

Here’s another one that I never really considered.

http://www.hear-it.org/Your-ears-differ-

WHAT?


#13

Paul as I hope your reading this stuff. This would be a good daily post and sure to stir up some Controversey .

As much as most would disagree it appears I am more normal than I even I thought. Lol

This does lead me to beleave who is correct when we post how pike and other changes really sound to each of us.

Elk said something that got my attention too. Do we like multiple array speakers or single driver . Meaning just one for each freq . The cohesiveness does make me wonder given timing must the same for all. But as I womder this I find there is some speakers that were multiple drivers that I like. And some single very expensive ones I just did not.

Last just where does a electro staic speaker fit in ?? They always sound nice although they do have there own issues for me as well.

Al


#14
gordon said http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/the-unique-vibrations-of-your-skull-affect-how-you-hear-music-654940/?no-ist

OR

Here’s another one that I never really considered.

http://www.hear-it.org/Your-ears-differ-

WHAT?


You sent me this foret one a while back. Good read. The second link does not work .

Gald you back posting . I cannot be alone here for along without it feeling it’s just lacking realism as in being human !!!

Al


#15
alrainbow said Paul as I hope your reading this stuff. This would be a good daily post and sure to stir up some Controversey .

As much as most would disagree it appears I am more normal than I even I thought. Lol

This does lead me to beleave who is correct when we post how pike and other changes really sound to each of us.

Elk said something that got my attention too. Do we like multiple array speakers or single driver . Meaning just one for each freq . The cohesiveness does make me wonder given timing must the same for all. But as I womder this I find there is some speakers that were multiple drivers that I like. And some single very expensive ones I just did not.

Last just where does a electro staic speaker fit in ?? They always sound nice although they do have there own issues for me as well.

Al


I am reading Al and thanks. And the dress is, to me, blue and black. Much depends on what is rendering the colors.

Of course we do not all hear the same because our hearing apparatus are all different, none identical. What we can agree upon are similarities that matter. As the others have stated, from there it’s a matter of experience and attention. I am sure most of you have watched this video:

The basketball game

And how many of us have missed that which everyone sees once they are told what to look for in this classic attention test. It is the same with hearing, smelling, or any of our senses.


#16

Yes, we can agree on what we hear, we can come up with the standardized terms for wine description, but what I like about this dress is that no matter how bright, dark or wrong the monitor is setup, I can’t see white & gold. My brain recovers the colors to blue&black regardless the “distortion”.

Another lesson of the dress is that we have no other choice but to respect others “vision”, opinion, organics, etc. I know, that we have to do that anyway, but there is no better example. I saw people who were shouting “IT’S NOT POSSIBLE!!! HOW CAN YOU SEE … IF IT’S …!!!” But when you have 10 people in the room who say “a”, and 10 people in the same room who say “b”, they are looking at the same monitor, and none of them lies, because there is no reason to lie, to play a game or to believe in something or someone, you have no other choice but to accept. Fascinating… And very philosophical - there can be more than one truth. Regardless experience, education, social status, race, religion, skin color, age… And something that everyone should experience.


#17

Very good and it’s all,true. Regarding the pic. For me it’s a couple of color combos. It’s white and gold and blue and darker gold. If I am outside in the daylight and inside my home with 3600K it’s different . Great reading and the point made is there no REAL right or wrong.

But of course this means nothing to a bunch of adults In a chat room that all think they are right and everyone else is wrong lol.

For me the pike is great but does make things a little off kilt for me but overall far better then the 121 . This fundimemtal improvement shows me there is hope for a frimware I like very much . The troubling part is , it’s found by improving specifications not voiceing for ti.

So will further improving the specs lead to still better sound for me !! I hope so . And i do appreciate everyone’s partication in this thread

it gives me some hope for my small brain in knowing what I hear is correct too but so is everyone else too. Somehow that doesn’t make me feel right hahahahaha !!!

Al


#18

Alekz said:

Another lesson of the dress is that we have no other choice but to respect others “vision”, opinion, organics, etc. I know, that we have to do that anyway, but there is no better example. I saw people who were shouting “IT’S NOT POSSIBLE!!! HOW CAN YOU SEE …… IF IT’S ….!!!” But when you have 10 people in the room who say “a”, and 10 people in the same room who say “b”, they are looking at the same monitor, and none of them lies, because there is no reason to lie, to play a game or to believe in something or someone, you have no other choice but to accept. Fascinating… And very philosophical – there can be more than one truth. Regardless experience, education, social status, race, religion, skin color, age…. And something that everyone should experience.

I do experience it every time I post here and no one agrees lol. But I get no respect !!! Just kidding I had to say that I loved Rodney

Al


#19

@Alekz: Are the family members who see the lighter bands as white male or female?

I think Elk nailed it. Perception is a complex issue, hearing or vision by themselves, not as much. Assuming that one has a normal hearing range for their age hearing is largely the same. What we perceive is affected by preference and experience. When my hearing was tested by the USAF I was able to pick out the test tone at a lower level than they thought possible. I don’t hear better but I was able to pick out the tone from the noise floor of the testing equipment.

One of my favorite illusions is something called visual capture. If you put on a pair of glasses that make straight lines appear strongly curved you will perceive straight objects, like a door frame, to have curved contours by touch. If you close your eyes this goes away. From a prior career, I am learned to visualize my retinal blind spot at will,recognize white blood cells flowing in the capillaries of my retina and a few other wacky things. You project the world around you visually by interpreting what is in reality an upside down, severely distorted (curved, bizarrely proportioned) image on the inside of a ping pong ball. We have about seven different ways to determine relative distance of objects, most of which are available to persons with monocular vision. Beyond about 1m, having two eyes is not a huge advantage.

As a woodworker, when I look at a chair or table I see them in terms of ratios, circles and squares. Artists do this as well, it is one step in preparation to paint a picture and allows one to determine proportion. These are learned observations that have nothing to do with the basic mechanism of sight. If you appreciate Monet but not Manet it has virtually nothing to do with vision (other than the fact that you can see it) but everything to do with preference.


#20

Great read glen. My wife and son see ot the same as I am odd man out. But the surrounding light freq effects the outcome . So using the same visual device indoors at my 3600k led lights yielded a doffremce than outside at abiut 4100k. Outside it was white gold. The white is nit lure but a blue white. Inside they old is at tad darker and white is now fully blue but not dark but not white any longer . Again this is me and I am using both an iPhone and iPad. And the outside white corners as a reference to colors.