tony22 said
Rob H. and Frode, so the question is why didn't you have to adjust the subs the same way when using the PWD? I'm not picking - I made a change myself that improved the balance of the low end and still provides all that the DS offers. But for all of us, does that mean the PWD was doing something wrong, or that we had to do something to retrieve something that is missing in the DS?
I'm not really sure which it is. I'm just happy that there was a good solution.
I think the PWDII had more of that bass ‘impact’ that we seek, but I can’t suggest it was always bass impacting in a good way. Compared to the DS, the PWDII does seem a bit muddy and bloated. (Again – by comparison only. The PWDII still sounded great.)
We did an A/B test on a couple of songs that came to our attention as being a bit weak in the bass with the DS. When we went back to the PWDII, there was still a lack of impact on those cuts. So it wasn’t that the PWDII had more impact, per se, but its signature may have caused us to think that it did.
Theoretically, I don’t know why rolling off more of the bass to the subs made such a drastic difference. I’d think that the signal either goes to the Maggies – which should be able to handle most lows pretty well – or to the powered subs. The DS is putting out the same signal no matter what the settings. But when I allowed the subs to take on a bit more of the work, the difference was stunning. Now, there is simply no lacking for bass… I’ve even had to back off some of the settings lest the room rumble too much.
Last night I listened again to the track that started this thread; same observations whether I played via the Bridge or USB. I can’t do a direct comparison with the PWD because I sent it back as a trade-in for the DS. But there is no question in my mind that the sax was noticeably more prominent via the PWD. I suspect that this is in fact the same phenomenon that others have described. “Fullness” along with a little extra volume is a good description of the sound of this track via the PWD. With the DS it’s tight and tuneful and has the right timbre, just not quite enough of it.
I don’t have a subwoofer but I do have a bi-amped setup. The NAD amp on the bass has a nice little dial to control the output level (one reason I bought it, to make it easy to balance the two amps). Sometime when I feel like crawling around behind equipment I will nudge that dial up a little and see what happens. Thanks Frode for mentioning this.
I confess I haven’t kept track down to the last hour, but at least 300, maybe 350. When the DS first came out and people were talking about needing 500 hours, I was skeptical. I do believe in burn-in but 500 is a lot. Well, believe it! Mine is definitely still evolving. If you’ve only got 150, there’s a lot left to uncover. Last night I heard voices like never before–unbelievably lifelike. So don’t worry, just put a CD or playlist on repeat and turn off the amp if you get sick of listening. Vade Forrester, in his TAS review, said his unit kept improving even after two months of almost constant use.
Do you use both the RCA and XLR outputs from your DS at the same time to drive your sub(s) and main speakers?
Just for the record; Those who don’t should not pay any attention to what I wrote. My case is special and may only confuse things.
No, I use only XLR out from the DS, pretty much direct to amp.
These ICs go into the Vandersteen crossover boxes, then into the amp’s XLR inputs. I have my main speaker cables on the amp output with spades; the cables to the twin Vandersteen subs are banana connected to the same point.
Frode, my speakers are actually bi-wired from my amp. They are built as a single “design” even though the bass drivers (cabinets) and top modules are separate. The passive crossovers built into the bottoms and the tops take care of the hand off between the two.
Then one of the first DS reviews came along, praising the bass area in particular!
Are you referring to the TAS review?
I just received my copy this afternoon. Vade Forrester compares the DS directly with the Audio Research DAC8… He describes the DS as better focused, a bit more distinct, more refined.
Most interestingly - after noting the DAC8’s extended and powerful bass is one of the characteristics for which the DAC 8 is known - he opines the DS’ “bass power and extension seemed every bit as powerful as the Audio Research D8. No other DAC has achieved that.”