Ethan Winer's challenge

What instrument is used in measuring musical timbre?

Any software which displays the audio spectrum by frequency and relative strength of each harmonic. There are a good number of software packages which also allow the manipulation of harmonics, such as SectraLayers.

See, e.g.:

17156f9558d2828f642c3d0056a4a67b-650-80

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measuring musical timbre

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Neat video.

My reaction on Ethan’s challenge… Just for the heck of it…

Since you start your challenge with summing up “all of” your accomplishments, one of which is supposedly your book, let’s assume Ethan, that your book is used by a certain amount of entities. Let’s also asume that for instance the Bible is used by a much bigger crowd than that. Would that mean that the Bible is more true than your book…? Secondly: I think that mr. McGowan treats you with all the respect in the video you refer to. The only thing he claims is that the null test possibly might not show everything, thereby referring to his own experiences and those of many others. Or do you believe that all those people are just deplorables that don’t know what they are hearing and need your book as guidance…? I am a PS Audio customer on the other side of the Atlantic and I don’t have the feeling that they have done me wrong so far. Last time I looked I couldn’t find any Winer Inc. products in my house nor cars. That doesn’t mean however that I don’t appreciate your work Ethan, I really do. But I must confess that I also watched most of the 500 plus PS Audio videos and I like them too. Whether either one of you is right doesn’t really matter to me, after all, it’s all about the hobby… Right…? And be honest, if it comes to humor between the two of you, I can clearly see a Winner, Ethan… LOL

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For me the best tool to determine sound quality is our ears…and what’s located between them.

Ethan would be right at home on the Hoffman Forums. A lot of zip cord folks there listening on 70s and 80s mass market gear.

I’ve been fascinated by this debate for months, especially for speaker cables. Officially I’m on the fence and sitting on some fences can be very uncomfortable for your “sitter”. I’m firmly in the camp that says if you can hear a difference, you can measure it - although Ethan’s measurements seem to say there is no difference. But neither do I think it is a statistically viable option to discount significant numbers of audiophiles who claim to hear differences in cables. I’d like to respect everyone here and so with some time on my hands, I started to investigate this dichotomy and found the following articles in the Audio Engineering Society archives, all backed up by a testing methodology and published results.

  1. Audio Cable Distortion is Not a Myth! - Richard Black - AES 120th Convention Paris France - May 2006

  2. Effects of Cable, Loudspeaker, and Amplifier Interactions - Fred E Davis - JAES Volume 39 Issue 6 pp. 461-468; June 1991

  3. AMPLIFIER LOUDSPEAKER INTERFACING - Richard A Greiner - JAES Volume 28 Issue 5 pp. 310-315; May 1980

AES rules prevent me from direct quotes from these docs but for a fee you can download and read them yourself. Article 1 (Black) shows that terminating a cable into a resistive load shows no appreciable difference in speaker cables (distortion is -103db - distortion of no more than -100db which is a level that appears to be a “north star” goal for many high end audio equipment designers). So Black essentially shows that a resistive load is not hearable and this is similar to Ethan’s null test results.

However, when Black tested these same cables by connecting an amplifier to a loudspeaker, he showed an increase in harmonic distortion with higher inductance/resistance cables. Specifically he showed the higher the cable inductance, the higher the harmonic distortion. Black shows for moderately inductive/high resistance cables that 3rd harmonic distortion is -75db. Lower inductance/resistive cables he tested reduced the 3rd harmonic distortion to -87db. I’d think that it is probable that many listeners could hear a 10db difference in harmonic distortion. At exactly what level the distortion difference is “hearable” would depend on an individual set of ears but the point is, there are differences and they are measurable.

The cables Davis and Greiner tested also covered welding and jumper cables as well as more exotic (and expensive) cable geometries and wire sizes. The unanimous decision was that jumper and welding cables were best left in the garage and metal shop. :slight_smile:

With the differentiator in speaker cables being low résistance and inductance (assuming that lowering these values does not push capacitance high enough to drive an amplifier to instability), I’m comfortable with Ethan’s findings, @Paul’s use of low inductance flat cables (last time I heard for music room 1), and the audiophile experiences with the ultra low inductance of @rower30’s Iconoclast speaker cables. I’m convinced that what Paul is hearing in his cable choices and what Galen has designed (and his users are hearing in Iconoclast) are a significant reduction in harmonic distortion. I could be wrong but that’s my take on it.

What I got from the above papers also confirmed (at least to me) that what is hearable is measurable, but the right test is crucial. The hardest part may be translating what you’re hearing into a test. In the case of interconnects, Black found no differences. Since many audiophiles have reported differences between various interconnects, I’m concluding that the right test has not yet been constructed and I will continue to sit on that particular fence.

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