We occasionally get a new member who tries to get us riled up claiming cables sound the same, or that we are otherwise deluding ourselves - usually after they announce themselves as EE’s or a empirical scientist of some stripe. We respond nicely, are polite, and they lose interest.
I get a kick out of Ethan.
Yes! He does seem to be quite the character.
Ethan, watch this
It’s that but more important he’s not measuring the chain. If he had a reference system capable of reproducing differences, which apparently he does not, he could use a microphone to record the output of the chain then digitally compare files for differences.
So, it is possible that a speaker cable when connected to speakers becomes reactionary, and will alter how the speaker cable itself reacts to the signal?
What he claims just does not make any sense. For I know what I can hear. Others do too. Is he living in the delusion that reality stops with his world? He might be living in an audio version of Joe Franklin’s Memory Lane? He still thinks (in audio terms) that Rudi Vallee is king and the best stops there.
Its not just about audio. Humans like him everywhere.
it wouldn’t matter and I doubt he’s following this thread. If you follow the thought process it’s really pretty amazing. You would have to conclude that the entire high end audio industry is a farce.
I was once told by an engineer that he believes possibly with audiophile fuses, that the filament oscillates with the demands of the music. That the improvements we hear may have to do with controlling the behavior if the filament, besides using superior conductive metals in the design. And, from my limited knowledge, I believe speaker cables do vibrate on a microscopic level when playing music. So, just sending a pure signal though these in a null test may not be enough to reveal where that product really shines.
If you really want to prove that cables sound different, invite Ethan to PS Audio and play him some music over the IRS with various cables in Music Room 2. I would suggest some generic, but good quality cables; your MG Audio; and some Iconoclast. I seem to recall you did this with another “non-believer” in the past (was it Mark Waldrep?). You made an impression with them, though they wouldn’t publicly acknowledge it.
I understand what he’s trying to do. The only issue is that he seems to be closed to anything that isn’t electrically connected to one device or another thus overseeing the human device called brain and ears, which is yet to be fully tested and understood. He can not prove perception or measure it. It’s electricity from a biochemical origin. No tools out there yet.
Reminds me of: Gary Null
After reading about Ethan’s crappy challenge and even crappier system (I didn’t watch his video challenge yet) I’m about to burn my 6 Realtraps in protest !
Ok they do work pretty well and I can remove them from my system to make an excellent temporary Voice Over booth .
I wasn’t going to post this, because this subject matter has been beaten to death.
Ethan Winer claims that all aspects of sound reproduction can be measured. So I’m curious, what instrument is used to measure musical timbre and soundstaging or imaging?
Edit: Sorry, didn’t realize this had already been posted.
Why did you re-post this?
Thanks.
Some challenges are left best ignored! Ethan is one of those if you can’t measure it there can’t be any difference people. Sad that they never have systems capable of letting them hear the very real differences that we haven’t figured out how to measure yet.
And a bunch of them would say, “Well, if you can hear differences, then something must be incorrectly designed in your fancy-pants system” ; )
Didn’t realize this has already been posted.
NP. It started the whole thread (LOL), which is why I asked…thought you might have omitted a comment or something.
Cheers.
The confusion is my fault. Gary started a new thread with this post and I moved it here to avoid a duplicate thread. I should have noted this for everyone.
The interesting thing is it is like a real need for scientific proof! If you can’t hear a difference good for you, save your money. If you can than buy what makes you happy!
We can easily measure timbre and can synthesize it as well. Imagining can also be measured and we have tools to manipulate soundstaging, imagine, etc. The tricky thing is to get your system to reproduce these things and to get the room out of the way.
But what we can measure/recreate does not necessarily reflect what we individually experience. We are physiologically different, have various preferences and interests, etc. Some are fascinated bu audio, others do not care, some hear this, some do not.
Unfortunately, whether any of this matters often resorts to “Does, too!,” “Does, not!”
Ethan offers some nice products and has some good information to share. He simply has a different view than some others.
Maybe he want 15 more minutes of fame…
In the end, it’s our ears and brains we use to enjoy music, not test equipment. We are the final arbitrators who decide what sounds best. Trust your own ear’s and judgement. Of course it helps if your system is resolving enough to hear differences in cables and electronics.