I’ve noticed that it is rare for an audiophile to make moderate statements about break in. One camp says break in time is hundreds of hours (500+?!?) for everything involved with HiFi, or then it’s all BS and break in is a marketing trick.
How about middle of the road? Break in can make a difference, but sometimes the sound is what it is? The best part of this debate is how subjective this all is anyway. So, if OP says the sounds is still intolerable after 100+ hours I would think that no amount of break in will change that. I guess it is up to him to find that out or not.
If someone hears a difference after hundreds of hours, then they do. If they don’t (me), then they don’t. I don’t expect that I can change anyone’s mind about what they’ve experienced or what they believe to be true any more than I can change their political views, nor am I interested in trying to. It just irks me when someone tells me that my experience or my opinion is wrong without anything objective to back it up.
My statements are based on my personal real life experiences with my systems and my two ears and brain that sits between them. Doesn’t mean everyone else’s brain and ears perceive the same thing.
I usually take notes on my initial impressions, and the entire break-in process One thing I’ve noticed is it’s not linear, but more like a roller coaster ride. Things can actually sound worse even after a hundred hours. Also as things began to stabilize, the changes become more subtle. Even though my current speakers sounded quite good from the beginning, it took well over 500 hours before I was convinced they were keepers.
I used to be troubled by the SQ getting worse on the 2nd week from a number of new components and cables. Then I realized it was just a part of break-in process.
The worst examples were a SR Master fuse and a ZenWave PSR-11 power cord. The fuse went through an up-and-down period for weeks. Even after the sound stabilized, I had to move it to a number of components to find the right place for it. It loved PST and hated DS2 and BHK pre for some reason.
I mentioned a few times in the past about breaking in on ZenWave PSR-11 power cord. I was told even the demo PC needs a week to recover from travel. Dave was right since the first week the SQ was terrible, one week later it flipped a switch and the SQ became wonderful!
After I order a brand new one I was told again to wait 1500 hours for it to sound good. Dave was right again. In fact, the first 500 hours I thought I was listening to a lamp cord. I remember my system made a jump in SQ after three weeks, and more even passed 1500 hours.
Last night, I hooked up my very old Arcam CD-72 CD player (around 2000) and compared it to my current Mark Levinson 5101 SACD player.
I found that the older (cheaper) Arcam CD-72 player actually made everything sound not as sharp and edgy. Actually, more listenable. I realize it is probably a mis-match for such high end speakers to be matched to a lower end source, but it sounded better than the Mark Levinson.
Now I realize the Mark Levinson has more defined / deeper bass, more air, more detail, but also more edginess and harshness.
I thought that, my ML has 7 filters, all very subtle in character, yet all etchy and harsh. The old Arcam doesn’t have an option to change any filters, it’s really plug and play.
Well, not a solution, because I could tell that the Arcam was holding back the speakers from their potential. But not sure how to proceed… whether the speakers potential is to be edgy and harsh, or is it the ML SACD player that is edgy and harsh.
Your old player is less revealing in detail, and Arcam gears are known for producing a warmer and more analog sound. I am not familiar with Focal tweeters but their speakers are very revealing from reviews.
There are many ways to tune down the treble edginess. If I have to guess, tube gears will soften the high frequency better. Cables and power cords matter a lot and I found them to be effective in tuning the sound too.
Cables such as Silversmith Fidelium IC and SC (which have no silver conductors in them) are a great one to match systems which are super-revealing in nature. AQ cables on the other hand may not be best pairing with such systems.
It is hard to pin-point one component of your system to replace to resolve the potential issue (if after break-in it is still an issue), but I believe the speakers is the last to consider for replacement since it’s new and most costly. Cables first, then sources next, but that could lead you to a new rabbit hole soon. Find a used pair of fidelium IC or SC to try, and a used pair is reasonably priced.
I have found that my Audioquest Water interconnects are very transparent, hence brighter sounding. Other than my long preamp / monoblock interconnects, I had older, less expensive Cardas cables from previous systems that I replaced the Audioquests with. It did help just a little.
I’ve hesitated to suggest this solution that I find essential to my systems as the build time wait is six months or more, but this tubed adjustable two option EQ device would allow you to tamp down the hard and harsh and get a musical sound while maintaining transparency. . . .
I have this in my main system, and two earlier (ZROCK2) versions in my other two systems. Mine have all options. Godsent device for me.
Being 67, I’d say I was also almost forced out of a hobby I’ve enjoyed for more than 50 years – I described my “cure” earlier in this thread; namely an all-in-one solution with the full expectation of a downgrade – and being pleasantly surprised when the opposite happened.
One aspect that I didn’t add in this thread – though I may have mentioned it elsewhere, is how the PWT, DMP and PST turned enjoyment into friction. Not PSA’s “fault”! When the PWT was introduced, digital rips including hires burnt to -R DVD sounded to my ears the equivalent of the CD. To those that disagree, I’ll just repeat what someone else said earlier it just irks me when someone tells me that my experience or opinion is wrong …
The above process was fun back then! But, it backfired as I got older and the DVD’s in nondescript envelopes with hand-written notes piled up around me. I found as I aged, that I increasingly couldn’t handle the clutter around me. Losing my fixed landline was initially painful, then my Post Office closed - that felt like death in the family. I dropped the PSA distribution and that was painful too – I basically started it in SA. [Though the new guy is doing a MUCH better job]. Eventually though I realized that losing all of the above improved my life.
The point of this litany of events and eventual tribulation is that – at least to some extent, to me – your current problem resonates with mine. This post is from the above perspective – and not from one of being skeptical about burn-in. Just saying. And from this perspective, a fuse going through ups and downs for weeks; waiting 500 hours for a PC to run in, a “switch suddenly flipped” after weeks of listening, a mountaintop software upgrade running in (the list is endless) – these are things that I cannot handle any more. The subjectivity of the experience just add to the friction. If my stock fuse is already run-in, and the new thin piece of cryonically treated wire goes through ups and downs for weeks – how am I going to reliably determine the difference it made? At 50, I might’ve still enjoyed the process. At 67, I can’t handle it any more.
And so, my “advice” comes from an entirely different angle: If whatever I do – in this case, running / burning in each item – causes friction in my life, I believe it’s time to get out of the audiophile hobby, and get into music. Get out of upgrading. Having to run in new equipment continuously. It worked for me; I cannot say it’ll do it for you.
Good for you! I am at the same age, and I am getting there, almost, soon. Just one more cable, that is it. Oh well, maybe two.
I got rid of both Master fuses, they are too hard to please. I still use ZenWave PSR-11 since it is still the 2nd best sounding power cord in my system, better than a few more expensive ones based on their listed prices. But I will not get a second PSR-11 because I can’t handle the break-in any more!
I used to record downloads into DVD-R, but stopped doing that once my streaming SQ improved. I have a sealed boxed of DVD-R and I am not sure what to do with them other than donating to dumpster.
My ears are not as good this year I noticed. Often I needed to listen back-and-forth to tell the sound difference, and a few years back I usually could tell within minutes. If that can let me out of upgrade loop that will be wonderful. Unfortunately I can still hear a difference from ethernet cables, so my life still in friction.
Enjoy the music, and my black snake oil is delayed until Monday. So, two important things will happen on next Monday; golfing first then applying this black oil on cables; hmm, maybe on fuses first.
The problem is not the speakers. Better speakers only reveals the source more accurately. When I was using Oppo and Marantz for my player, I hated the sound of most of my CD and SACD collection. Only some of the better discs were listenable. That’s why I love vinyl so much. Vinyl was much more forgiving. Digital was so bad that I was giving away a lot of my discs. Until PS Audio DSD MK1 came along. Then digital was more tolerable. But it’s with the Playback Designs MPD 8 that no matter what speakers I use, it would sound fabulous. No more hardness and brightness on most of my discs. Now I hear only music just like vinyl.
Do you use roon? If so, you can add a high shell eq, -2,5dB, from 1000hz, q=1. It will soften the high frequencies. From there, you can experiment a bit. For what it is worth, it is for free.
I don’t use Roon. I only use CD’s. My Mark Levinson 5101 SACD / Streamer combo, the streamer has always been horrific to use. The phone app that controls the streamer constantly crashes, and when it does work, the streamer likes to skip. Pure crap.
I’ve been hesitant to jump into this but here goes nothing. You heard this Focal model at your dealer. You liked them enough to buy them. Don’t like them at home and you’re so frustrated you want to sell them and get (if you can find them) your beloved B&Ws back. I assume you’ve done this, but if not let’s do some math and some additional chin rubbing. If you can sell the Focals, you’ll be losing x amount of dollars. If you can find the B&Ws, you’ll be spending y amount of dollars. Now, it sounds like you’re less than in love with the ML SACD / streamer. Remember - you liked the Focals when you heard them, enough to buy them. Would it be possible that the x+y dollars you’d be out of pocket on, if going through a speaker swap, be better spent replacing parts of your system that (at least one part of) you’re not happy with, to try and create the right synergy for the Focals? If this strikes you as worth considering, then give the speakers some more time, and start figuring out what possible alternative component in a “x+y” dollar bucket might move things to where you want. Personally when it comes to speakers I don’t really believe in anything past about 100 hours of good volume playing (dynamic driver speakers here, nothing exotic) will fundamentally change a speaker so much that you’d go from hating it to loving it. If you loved them in one place, but not in another (time qualifier assumed), look at what’s driving them. Just my opinion.
