I had sworn I was going to boycott Octave Records for raising the price of their lower-res-than-DSD download prices from $19 to $29. But I previewed their newest release, Sovereign Mind by Ryan Benthall, and it seems to have drum sounds worth mentioning, so of course I caved in and bought it.
And I got a call today that my Vandersteen speaker is FIXED - finally! So I’ll listen to this in earnest over the next day or two.
But for now, even on my Apple Display speakers I can hear something great going on - something I really love in a good modern jazz recording - and that’s where the drums sound really intimate, but at the same time fully integrated within the ensemble. It’s a tricky thing because the engineer has to get close enough to the drums, and give them some soundstage spread, but to not have the drums too far forward or smothered up in the back. I think the engineer Jay Elliott really did this very well.
As for style, it’s not my favorite cup of joe - sort of halfway between the jazz that came out on the Wyndham Hill record label in the 80s (remember New Age music?) and pianists on ECM Records, like Keith Jarrett - so a little more interesting than George Winston (who I actually met one time) and not as interesting as Jarrett. But the ensemble seems good, so I think it might grow on me a bit more.
I was going to check this out but I can’t find where you can listen from the browser. Maybe that’s changed now so I’ll have to take your word for it. Great news your speaker is fixed!! I got curious how these V’s come apart for repair and it’s a bit of work to access the drivers.
In my web page of every Octave recording, if I scroll down - sometimes pretty far, there are playable tracks. I think they actually provide the whole track, so back in the days I used to be OK with mp3, I could have recorded them, which is why most sites only give snips.
The guy who fixed my speaker had thought it was fixed, but when he tested it, it wasn’t perfect, so he had to take it apart again to fix it right. He said that what happened is that the glue connecting the voice coil to the diaphragm breaks down over time - no way around it. He didn’t charge me extra, but I gave him extra. I’ve never seen such a wide array of components - apparently he has customers in several states. “You must be incredibly good,” I said and he blushed, but did take the extra I handed him.
It’s showing up now. No clue why I wasn’t finding it but I see it now and I will give this a listen today.
Sounds like I best start saving for repair or upgrade. I’m pretty sure the glue is what gave up on one of the woofers on my other speakers and it was very simple to replace the drivers. These V’s are anything but simple to crack into for repair so that’s great he cares enough to make it perfect. Sounds like he earned the extra to me. Glad you are almost up and running!
Oh, there’s no almost about it - I’m fully up and running. I think this pretty much happens with all cone-based woofers. I had a pair of Dahlquists where the surrounds got so they literally disintegrated if I touched them. I’m not sure what they have to make the woofers out of, but the glue and materials break down. And I think you’re right that the Vandies are hard to take apart, but it is possible and I can probably expect another 10 years of use. But of course I’m simply going to have to upgrade at some point. Why? Because I’m an audiophile, that’s why.
Hey, now that I got my speaker back, I wanted to let you know that last night I checked out the Kendrick Scott (Corridors) and Mark Turner (In this World) recordings you recommended. I didn’t get as far into the Kendrick yet, but I think I like the drum sound better there. However, the drumming itself on the Mark Turner is truly phenomenal. The more I hear from Brian Blade the more I’m convinced he might be the most sensitive drummer I’ve heard. There’s just something about his “touch” that is so perceptive of everything going on. I was a bit nervous going into the tracks where they added another drummer (Jorge Rossy), but wow, they made it work beautifully, and I think it has a lot to do with Blade’s ears. The only thing I might have wanted was for the drums to have been just a bit more forward in the mix, but I could hear everything, so told myself to quit griping. I’ll give the Scott more of a listen later.
Sweet! That’s even better. I had a set of Marantz speakers from the late 70’s or early 80’s as a teen that had the surrounds disintegrate. I know my day is coming since my V’s are pretty old. I could be happy with mine for the rest of my life if I couldn’t replace them they are the best speakers I’ve owned but I too crave better so at some point I will look for an upgrade to these 1B’s.
When the time comes, a logical and very worthwhile upgrade within the Vandersteen line would be the 3A Signatures. A good friend has these, and was not tempted to go with Vandersteen 5A, Kento, etc - he has heard them all and still prefers the mix of virtues embodied in the 3A Sigs. Next level would be to add one (or a pair) of the Vandersteen 2wq subwoofers - amazing upgrade, no downside.
Good to know! A used set could be possible and I’m thinking the FR 5’s would be a nice step up also. I have a HSU Research sealed sub and will likely get another to match. I wish I could afford to play like most of you guys do. I can only imagine how wonderful the systems I see posted here sound and that’s probably a good thing, lol.
When I bought my Vandersteen 2cis, I was really looking for 5As based on reviews, but couldn’t find any used. When I picked them up from my speaker repair guy earlier this week, I asked him about subwoofers and he said that if I have a small room (I do), there’s no reason to do subs with this model Vandersteen unless I simply WANT more bass - that these produce everything down to 20 Hz with full resolution.
The Swiss engineers here captured this trio expertly–every little detail of piano pedals, sound board, contrabass violin and drumset are captured delicately and with detail that doesn’t call attention to itself. When the drums are given featured spots they present powerfully and as accompaniment they sound so crisp and clear, as if you were standing behind the drummer (that’s where it seemed to place me).
It’s funny but starting off a sixth decade or so of exploring jazz I find myself experiencing different things in critical listening. Like the delicate cymbal touches recorded here. Or listening today earlier to Ron Carter outside the pure jazz realm on “Stone Flower” and “Stories to Tell,” albums by Jobim and Purim where he worked so well with the drummers and played just the right note, at just the right moment, to create the grooves that connect you to the music from Brazilian artists at their peaks.
On “Stone Flower” Ron Carter meshes so well with drummer João Palma, and he also contributes melodically to the flow and structure of the pieces. This is an album I have listened to for thirty years or so, more frequently than many another. I love Deodata’s arrangements and the execution by this great ensemble. Creed Taylor and Rudy Van Gelder stirred and served up the atmospheric beauty I hear. There is so much here to enjoy–Urbie Green and the flautists, Jobim and Deodata are gelling with a joy and also an attention to these musical paintings. João PalmaI’s beats and accents are just when and where they should be. I love this album.
And on “Stories to Tell” Ron Carter’s sound is so well-captured and mixed by Jim Stern and Orrin Keepnews, and his interaction with Airto and King Erisson seems sincere and a bit exploratory. The recording overall is fun to hear, the drumming playing just a bit less of a part than the bass in the mix . . . a remix might help some of the passages in this one, but the LP really sounds good, especially mine for its age.
I would suggest these are good listens for the drum sound a good system will reproduce.
Hey, You have no idea how grateful you and others here have made me for starting this thread. I guess I’m in also in my sixth decade of jazz listening - I know that by age 5 I liked the jazz I heard my dad play on the record player and the live jazz my grandfather played. And like you, I find new things to listen for, where a resolving system opens more opportunities every day. I tell people that I not only know that’s an acoustic bass instead of electric (almost any system will tell you that), but details like where on the instrument he’s playing, where he’s standing, etc. So I am so glad you provided the details you did in this review. I’m eager to listen to all of them.
I’ve been meaning to tell you how much I liked the Michel Portal et al recording Alors (Qobuz / Apple Music). There still aren’t a huge number of listeners who actually LIKE “free” jazz, but I love the stuff. And one of the reasons is because I love sound textures and you’re right that the capture of everything on this recording is phenomenal. Strange coincidence that on that album there’s a track called “Billy the Kid” and a friend recently recommended an album by an alternative rock group called Prefab Sprout (no relation to the PS Audio line of products) called Jordan: the Comeback. They’re an interesting group, sort of indie, sort of theater, a little popish at times. They did a 2-track set about Jesse James - the second, “Jesse James Bolero” (Qobuz / Apple Music), has some great percussion sounds worth checking out. Maybe not your cup of tea, but…
I was replying to someone on one of Paul’s Posts and telling him that for my dad the engineer, back in the 60s, all problems could be solved with a slide rule and a dry martini. I guess I could add Dave Brubeck to that line-up. Then I got an email from Dave Chesky’s Audiophile Society announcing a new album called “Dry Martini Jazz.” Not kidding. One thing I’ve liked about Chesky’s more recent recordings is how they’ve focused almost entirely on venue and microphones, greatly simplifying things in a way, but also really risky that the recordings sound too “live” with not enough presence for my ears. Previewing this, I’m picking up that the drums are really nicely done - not forward, like you’re standing with the drummer - but in the ensemble, yet very clear as to how things are being struck.
I am glad you enjoyed “Alors” (which weeny wop suggested). I like free jazz of that vintage–later free jazz is very problematic for me, I don’t see a connection to the tradition in much of it and it just incorporates too much non-jazz characteristics, or is just too noodly and noisey, or. . . well there are a lot of factors that keep me from it. My life gets shorter by the day and I choose to listen to other things.
Oh, oops, sorry @weedeewop I thought it was lonson that suggested that. If you hear me, I really appreciate you turning me onto it.
When you say “later free jazz” you would categorize this under that? 1970? I am one to appreciate the original “tradition” of jazz - where I’d call the “traditional” free jazz that created by Ornette Coleman, Archie Shepp, Sam Rivers, etc. But I think the “tradition” of jazz is wide enough to include this too. When I was in high school and college, the big thing was “fusion” and “smooth” jazz, like Yellowjackets, Bob James, Earl Klugh, and a lot of purists didn’t find jazz tradition in them either, but I did. And I’m sure there were plenty of “purists” who didn’t think Thelonious Monk or Charles Mingus were in the tradition either. I remember reading of a Monk recording, “sounds like a cat walking on the piano.”
I guess knowing there’s no way I’ll ever listen to everything in one genre, I’m OK with branching out. Maybe I’ll call that “free jazz”?
I have gotten into more wrangles online talking of definitions of jazz and will refrain now. I’m sorry that I was not clear enough in my writing–this Portal material I feel is at the tail end of the “New Thing”–I truly enjoy the New Thing material that I too see as coming out of the tradition. It’s later, i.e. closer to contemporary, “free jazz” that I have discovered I don’t connect to and so I don’t experiment with it. No sense trying to “get it” or try to be “hip” etc. I don’t have time for that. I like jazz from 1917 up through the New Thing, see that as a tradition, and there are artists right now out there working within that big wide and long field, and I dig their work as I uncover it. But I pass over other things; I’m going to turn 70 this year and I have over 30,000 cds and I don’t stream and I will continue to explore my archive and new material. . . that I feel fall within the “parameters” of what I truly enjoy.
Hope that makes sense. I’m a big believer in individuality and allowing others to follow THEIR likes and interests as I follow mine. We don’t need to be on the same walkway.
I appreciate very much the deeper explanation. I could probably apply your reasoning to about 75 percent of what I like. I have studied jazz my whole life - wrote numerous papers in college and graduate school - in fact, one was actually on free jazz. The best paper was about the similarities and differences between blues and religious recordings by Charley Patton. I also produced jazz radio programs for 3 public radio stations. I did what I could to “push the envelope” in radio to include “freer” jazz, but got the evil eye from music directors. So I gathered a significant education and understanding of how jazz evolved and what makes it what it is.
But that other 25 percent is really important to me and I study it closely as well - alternative rock, Americana, bluegrass, and classical, which I also produced a lot of for radio. In fact, I was a classical trumpeter and music major, so I guess I know more about classical when it comes to “book learning.” But I’m really glad I like other genres, especially when adding in my fairly new interest in high-end audio.
Hey, I spent my time in other genres. I grew up with my Dad’s love of classical and the music of the church (he was a minister all but five years of his working life–the years he was a Peace Corps administrator). And I played for years in blues and rock bands, and did some recording as both a performer and engineer/producer in those years. I know a lot about those musics as a listener and a player, they just don’t appeal to me any longer as a route of exploration. I stopped listening to the radio long ago (just can’t stand the blather of announcers and ads, and most of the music even if liked is killed by repetition), and I just became spellbound by jazz and about 30 years ago only a growing enthusiasm with Latin music could claim time away from jazz.
It is what it is. . . and I am quite happy with the direction that my life journey and musical journeys have taken me. And can appreciate the journeys of others would necessarily be different.
