That part of the YouTube video where Krupa’s “drumming” on Benny Moten’s bass strings is fantastic.
This topic has definitely stretched to where “recording quality” has meant a lot more than just audio, which is a big part of why I am here. I’ve told this story before, but years ago, while my older brother was building his sound system, I was developing my “musical” ears - caring much more about the musicianship than about the audio details. When I decided about 5 years ago to get more into the audiophile realm, I assumed I’d be listening to a lot of recordings where I might have to “hold my nose” at mediocre performing. But I was greatly surprised that most people in the audiophile world care deeply about music quality as well - I even found out my brother was listening to stuff I never would have suspected, like avant-garde jazz. And there are certainly recordings discussed around here described as “nothing to write home about” with regard to audio, but great recordings when it comes to musical talent.
Another thing I discovered was a lot of really great under-appreciated musicians I’d never heard of. It almost seems like there’s a correlation between really talented musicians and good-quality audio, and some who insist on an extremely high level of recording innovation, like Steely Dan, Pink Floyd, James Taylor, Holly Cole, Patricia Barber, Diana Krall. I knew of them before, but some musicians I found entirely via the audiophile route are Rebecca Pidgeon, Sinne Eeg, Dave’s True Story, Vienna Teng, Tierney Sutton, Eva Cassidy, Maria Schneider, Sara K. Porcupine Tree. And certain record labels specialize in high-quality audio while producing some really fine music: Telarc, ECM, Blue Note (like the Tone Poet series), Chesky, High-Definition Tape Transfers, Octave (right here on this site), Reference Recordings, Stockfisch. Even going the “label-search” route, it’s rare I find a mediocre musician.
Not sure this would be your cup of tea, but tonight I decided to hear a modern big band recording I’d almost forgotten about: Tommy Igoe and the Birdland Big Band (2012) “Eleven” (Qobuz / Apple Music). He is a powerful drummer and really drives that band well. The best track I think is their rendition of Chick Corea’s (RIP) “Got a Match.” Really great modern jazz drum sounds.
'Salright!
Not sure how to interpret that. A lot of times people say 'salright" to mean “OK, but nothing special.” But you put an exclamation point after it, so that could mean you really liked it. Since I like it and really respect your opinion, I’ll take it as you were overwhelmed with excitement and rushed immediately to the record store to buy your own copy.
Your comment reminded me of when I was in high school, I played in a community jazz big band led by an old Southern guy named Baxter Potts. I would go on Saturdays to his home to listen to records. He chain-smoked filterless Camel cigarettes and you couldn’t even see yourself in the mirrors in the living room. Whenever the phone would ring, his wife would always be the one designated to answer. If the call was for him, he’d take the phone and say, “All right.” To this day I’ve never heard anyone greet someone on the phone that way.
Oh, and just to stay on topic, he was a drummer and I guess he played in some local big bands in the 1940s and 50s. And the general consensus was that he wasn’t very good.
I thought it was good. I am NOT a fan of youtube and I don’t have the best fidelity listening to youtube and if I had a disc I might enjoy it more. I don’t listen to youtube much at all, to be honest hardly ever at all, and did so in this instance out of respect to your posting it.
I’m not rushing off to a record store. (The nearest one worth a visit is 40 minutes away!) I didn’t feel driven to purchase this recording. I’m swamped with material to listen to, tens of thousands of discs, and I am reminded by my wife sometimes twice daily that I need to divest, not increase my holdings.
Hey, I was totally kidding about rushing out to a record store - although I guess with vinyl’s resurgence, they’re a lot more common than 10 years ago.
Regarding YouTube, I use it a lot for music, but not for serious audio listening. For videos of concerts, musicians as guests on TV shows, to preview things, absolutely, and of course for info on recordings, audio, etc. When COVID hit, the very gifted jazz pianist Emmet Cohen started doing livestreams from his apartment in NYC. They just had a 5-year celebration. It’s a great opportunity to experience live music with some of the best up and coming performers on the scene. And it’s FREE.
That’s cool. I’m just not really intersted in “up and coming performers” except in the jazz field and have other ways to be exposed to those. And “live music” lost a lot of allure to me when I hung up my drumsticks, got married, gave up drinking and the “night life” about 35 years ago. My experience with live music was that bad from the “sausage making” side that I just don’t crave that type of experience any longer.
We’re all different. . . I’m just old enough that I never played video games (which some persons I know think is just not possible as it’s part of their lifeblood) and don’t dig watching things on the computer. (And I have a slightly intelligent phone that does not connect to the internet).
With respect to recorded drums, last night I experienced something a bit unusual these days, but it was interesting. We’ve talked in this topic about what we think about soundstages where the drummer is in the middle and the different elements of the drum-set are spread out over the whole soundstage. The majority of rock and jazz recordings do this nowadays, whereas in the early years of stereo, engineers like Rudy van Gelder would put the drums to one side or the other to mimick being in a club. So these days technically if modern producers are really wanting to create a “stage”, the cymbal on the right could be 18 feet from the hi-hat on the left. But for some reason, I think most of us don’t really hear it that way, that it just gives the impression of the parts being arranged around the drummer. I’ve also wondered whether the “spread” gives more “space” to each element, where you hear more of the snare drum for instance than if it was all tucked over on the right.
In another post I was talking about pianist Emmet Cohen who has been doing weekly (now monthly) livestreams from his New York apartment for 5 years. He releases excerpts from these performances on YouTube (sorry @lonson) and one that I return to frequently features some of the best improvisation and interactive energy I’ve ever seen, the pre-bop standard “After You’ve Gone” which along with a great solo by Cohen, are ones by alto saxist Patrick Bartley and trumpeter Bruce Harris.
I wanted to check out more by Bruce, so I listened to his 2021 album “Soundview” (Qobuz / Apple Music). I was surprised to hear the drummer over to the left, the pianist to the right, Bruce and the bassist up the middle - a few tunes feature vocalist Joy Samara (also in the middle). I guess I’ve heard enough “drums to one side” recordings that I wasn’t bothered, but I did listen carefully to test the theory of whether spreading them across the soundstage might give more to each piece. I really don’t think anything was lost. Very clear, authentic-sounding drums with plenty of space at a perfect level. The drum solos were also very well placed within that arrangement. I do believe they at least spread the drums over half the soundstage, but it was a bit hard to tell.
And it’s good jazz worth a listen.
I might have found the best-ever audiophile drum sound recording. But of course, as my ex-wife used to say back when I was a wine connoisseur “Jon’s all-time favorite wine is the one he’s having right now.”
But as I sat there last night listening to this, I thanked myself for getting back into vinyl because I was truly wondering whether I might be getting a kind of “visceral” eperience I wouldn’t with digital. Either way, the sound of the drums, and in combination with other percussion, is a sound to behold. The one thing I wasn’t impressed with was the way they did the sound of voices on several tracks, but I read in the liner notes how those selections were multi-tracked while the others were direct to 2-track.
Victor Lewis - Family Portrait (Qobuz / Apple Music). Of course, I’m not totally surprised, this being an Audioquest recording from the 1990s. I also have to add that this is one of the quietest pieces of vinyl I’ve ever heard. However they did it, I’m grateful.
