What is it they’re trying to tell us with the girl sitting on the drum? I assume she’s neither Jack Marshall or Shelly Manne, although if I didn’t know Shelly Manne, I might have guessed that was her. Or maybe at some point Shelly tickles her and she bangs the drum with her foot? So much to learn about music.
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I love this (Jack Marshall & Shelly Manne/Sounds!) Thanks for the suggestion. Amazing recording for its age!
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On my system this contemporary recording sounds excellent–this is how I would like a recording from this decade to sound. As a session led by a drummer the drum sound is very “present” without dominating the recording with a heavy hand–a nice engineering feat.
Kendrick Scott “Corridors” Blue Note cd
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Thanks for the suggestion. I am working through many of these and finding not only great examples, but learning more about how hard it is to work that balance between “drums as part of rhythm section” vs. “you really need to hear what the drummer is doing.” I think you said it perfectly - “present” without dominating. Last night I listened to the Joe Morello recording @DavidF listed and it is really a fantastic capture of drums, but Morello stands out a bit much for my tastes (well, it was HIS record for crying out loud), but just a tiny bit. It’s worth it to hear his talent and how well it’s mic’d.
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Here’s one more recording where I think the drummers are well represented, allowing the groove to flow but not dominating, and the engineering allows the horns and guitar and keyboards to contribute dynamically and texturally, while also portraying the drumkits realistically and in an integrated fashion. I especially like the way that the snare strokes and the clave hits sound, distinctive but not overpowering.
This is one ROCKIN’ funky session by a master who knows how to evoke the classic Blue Note souljazz sound in an updated manner.
Dr. Lonnie Smith “Evolution” Blue Note cd
classic Blue Note souljazz sound
Unlike piano, I think Rudy van Gelder really had drum sounds right. I find myself wanting to hear them come more “modern”, more forward, or spread a little further out on the soundstage, but then when I listen carefully, I can hear everything those drums are doing well-balanced within the mix. I’ll be interested to hear what you mean by “updating” that sound in the Lonnie Smith recording.
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Well, this one is not an RVG recording as you might guess. It’s not just the drum sound that I refer to as “updated” nor the recording sound itself, though overall the sound is RVG-ish . . . it’s more the arrangement and “feel” of the session that keeps a Blue Note Lonnie Smith sound from the classic era but also has a nod to changes that have occurred in the genre since–it’s a really nicely put together session in all aspects, as befits the return of a master to the label that gave him his initial stature in the 'sixties–this was Smith’s initial recording for Blue Note after leaving decades earlier.
Thanks very much for the additional information! Now I want to run in and listen immediately, but I still have this ridiculous thing called a “job.” So it will have to wait till later. However, here’s something funny: When you wrote “…but also has a nod to changes that have occurred in the genre…” My first thought was to ponder what “chord changes” had occurred. Then, after I remembered that not all “changes” are chord changes, I remembered when I used to produce jazz radio programs with a guy who grew up in New York City during the Beat generation and still speaks a lot in that style. We were talking about a new Dave Grisman album that had several jazz cuts on it and he said, “It is remarkable to hear someone blowing changes on a mandolin.”
or live. I think a good system gets you more of what’s in the recording vs. a ‘lesser’ system that gives you less. A good system can’t get anything more than is contained in the recording…at least I hope not. The room interaction makes a massive difference…in my experience.
Or perhaps you meant how a great system improves your enjoyment of drum sounds?
Yes, chord changes are a very small part of it. It’s more rhythmic style–things of this nature tend to “rock” more now, especially in the area of drumming, where there are more fills and in the area of guitar tones where there are more effects and dirt in the tone. That’s how I would best describe it.
That “Evolution” is a very interesting record–the arrangements differ from his earlier Blue Notes were generally.
I was sort of kidding on the “changes” thing.
I figured. Just thought I would elaborate a bit.
Yeah, that might have been a better title. Especially when my general goal is to achieve a sound as close as possible to what the producer/engineer intended.
A good system can’t get anything more than is contained in the recording…at least I hope not.
But I think a lot of people want to TRY to get more by manipulating with EQ, loudness, etc. One thing I find fascinating is that for many years the recording side of technology was better than the playback side. So engineers were actually putting more data into the grooves of a record than they were even able to know was there. They also knew a lot about what stereo could do but because there wasn’t a way to commercially play it back, had to stick with mono quite some time.
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I’ve leveraged convolution filters to help with room modes specific to my setup and space, x-cross feed to expand the stage and loudness for low listening, and PEQ and cross feed for headphone setup for years. I don’t think of it as trying to get more rather to adjust the sound to my ear/brain preference. We all hear how we hear. Ear shape, lifetime of hearing use/damage, etc.
Yes, the system needs to be able to provide the technical chops but ‘tuning to preference’ in the digital domain @ 64-bit (32-bit is plenty sufficient too) can really make a mediocre sound system sound absolutely wonderful.
Here’s one and the sonic quality isn’t limited to capturing the percussion section.
ALORS!!! (SO!!!) What Barre Phillips does with contrabass on this is surreal.
I haven’t heard the name Barre Phillips in years. I will definitely check that out.
I sure wish I had other audiophiles or listening rooms to compare to mine, so I could experience the difference between some of these things. I guess I could drive down to the big city and visit a high-end audio store, but we’d both know I wouldn’t be there to buy anything. But I guess that’s part of the deal for them, right? As for the difference between 16 and 24-bit, I THINK I can hear a difference, but 32 vs. 64, not a bit (and no, I didn’t create this whole thing just to execute that pun).
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Since he died last month, December 28, the name of Barre Phillips has been bandied about quite often the last two weeks.
For sure go down to the city and spend some time. Take some of your favorite media with you. You may be blown away or underwhelmed 
But better for the experience nonetheless.
Any shop owner of a niche, arguably dying, business like high-end audio gear shop would be well advised to not judge the financial worth of an individual coming through their doors based on appearances. If they do, walk on out as they do not have your auditory interests at heart.
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A worthy bassist, rates our time listening. I’ve had many of his recordings in my collection since the mid ’70’s Much of the music I listen to never makes mention on this forum. Until recently Barre is one such example.