I’m sorry if my speaker is making you paranoid! But seriously, mine are probably working on 30 years old (bought them used), so something going awry in a woofer is only to be expected. It might be as simple as running through a set of frequency test tones to isolate vibration to ascertain whether it’s your speaker or the frame around that Elvis poster on your wall. And as for upgrading, I’m really looking at the PS Audio FR5s. I’m going to the AXPONA show in April and hope to hear the 5s, but I hate trying to evaluate stuff in a show environment.
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Oooooh, I’m going to HAVE to check out that track. I really love the experience in high-end audio of being able to hear individual voices or instruments (or beads). I’m a fan of large jazz ensembles and when I can determine not only where the sax section is, but where the bari-sax is, it’s chill-bumps for days. If you’re looking for a great track to test this phenomenon that Paul McGowan calls “space between instruments,” the track “Church” (Qobuz / Apple Music) on Lyle Lovett’s 1992 album “Joshua Judges Ruth” is great. Listen to separate the individual voices and hand-claps - a great system helps you pin-point the different musicians. I also love it when not only can you hear the different claps, but you can hear the total sound “envelope” of each clap.
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By the way, I just checked out the Van Morrison track and I couldn’t hear a shaker in there on my Apple Studio Display speakers, but found there are two versions on Qobuz - this is the one we want.
It reminds me of a great song by Don Henry from his 2001 CD “Flowers and Rockets.” The track “If I Was Your Man” (Qobuz / Apple Music) has a great rain stick sound in the first verse. There’s also the sound of clicking the pads on a saxophone going on as well (I guess rain-sticks and sax keys qualify as percussion for this thread). This is one of my favorite tracks of all time, what my late brother used to call a “cranker” where you just HAVE to crank up the volume. When that keyboard comes in after the 2nd chorus and horn section after the 3rd, it will blow you away.
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“If possible to narrow it down a few examples, which of these would you recommend that captures the full range of details you expect to hear and maybe what to listen for.”
My first thought was the Tony Williams drum solo on “Seven Steps to Heaven” on the Miles Davis album “Four & More–Recorded Live in Concert.”
This is a brilliant solo mostly structured and constructed based on the solo on the tune in the studio album by the same name. As a listener this was one motivation for me to buy a drumset back in the early 'eighties and remains minutes that inspire me.
This recording captures the sonic impact of this performance, you can hear it all at once, all the significant details are there and it just struts out to the listener with energy. This is how I like the drums to be recorded and sound.
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It is all your fault! haha.
I’m not sure how old my speakers are since I bought them used. My paranoia is mostly from my other speakers having an issue that was hard to track down. I would hear something that wasn’t right and move my ear near the speaker and couldn’t hear it or hear it for a second then nothing so I’d assume it wasn’t the speaker, rinse and repeat. I finally found a song I could hear this issue every time and it took me pulling the woofer out while playing that song to finally be sure it was that driver. My best guess would be some glue gave up on that driver after 30ish years much like your issue. I think I am hearing my desk rattle some and since it is on the same side of the room as the speaker making noise was my brain can’t help but make me think I hear an issue.
I’m dreaming of the day I can order a set of FR 5’s… I love my Vandersteen’s but man would I love having the FR 5’s.
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Dreaming of a set of FR5’s myself!
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I agree it is really fun to hear the details like fingers touching strings and the variation in how hard something it struck. I’m very new to proper speaker placement and things like soundstage and imaging. I’m working on making my speakers fully disappear. I feel like I have the placement right and now need some sound treatment. My room is very bare.
Thanks for the song to check out I will give it a listen today.
Maybe next year I can pull off getting a set. Hopefully all three of us get a set by next year 
Fingers crossed 
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Hey lonson, I am a huge fan of Tony Williams. I’m not sure I’ve ever heard that Four & More live album, so when I get my speakers back up and running, I’ll jump on it, and compare it to the studio version.
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Maybe if we all go in on 3 sets of 5s, we could get a group discount!
As for speakers disappearing, I think there’s a bit of psychology involved that’s beyond speaker placement. I stopped worrying about them disappearing, but started closing my eyes and listening for 3-dimensional sound - could I hear the vocalist in front of the group, could I hear the cymbals up high, could I hear the drums where the snare is behind the tom-toms? Having mixed recordings in the past, I know that good engineers can achieve these details using two speakers. When I began to feel I’d heard that, I could open my eyes and see that those two boxes created all that - literally asking, “Really, THAT came from THERE?” I realized my speakers had disappeared, but maybe it comes from not focusing on the speakers, but focusing on the music entirely. Hard to explain.
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Not a bad idea!
That could be. I’ve never heard speakers completely disappear. I feel like my speakers disappear in part but I’d like to hear what Paul always talks about. Maybe when the room is properly treated I will experience this. I’m with you on closing my eyes and relaxing into the music. Just the music and myself exist and it’s magical.
I have found that room treatment is the NUMBER ONE way to quickly improve your listening experience, assuming that you at least start with a pretty good sound system. I went into building my room pretty seriously, but I was lucky - I had an unfinished basement with the electrical panel right there, so creating new walls and running new electrical lines was a lot easier than it might have been working in an already-built space. However, just adding bass traps and diffusion or absorber panels in the right place can make an enormous difference. Something I read said that we have no idea what kind of things are getting in the way of hearing what your speakers can do until you do the treatments. When totally uninitiated people walk into my room, they say things like, “OMG, I’ve never heard such quiet.” That’s until I start playing Frank Zappa’s album “Lumpy Gravy.”
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My system is set up in my living room and the room is pretty small and bare. I can definitely tell the reflections are doing weird things when the volume goes up. One side wall has curtains and some cheap sound panels and the other is bare and my desk and PC are on that wall. It skews the center image quite a bit to the bare wall side and throws the balance off side to side. I do have the PC monitors positioned so the point of first reflection is behind them but I need some absorption there. I’m thinking a large 2in thick panel with a nice picture on it for that spot. That’s the starting point and eventually the whole room will get treated.
Love me some Zappa!! I bet your room sounds amazing. I’m try’n to get mine there…
This album has great dynamics and drums.
https://open.qobuz.com/album/cy3lprjnbr78b
DSD Download
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1nMrYXRCRyPnGY5emGMfjMFnJE5jINqR1?usp=sharing
There are so many things you can do with an existing room to improve its treatment. The first thing is balance - and no, not that useless knob on your pre-amp - but to try to get things in balance, so the speakers have a wall and/or other stuff behind them in equal amounts. In general, if your room is longer than wide, putting the speakers on either side of the long walls is better (so the sound is shooting down further). Remember that diffusion depends upon things that randomly scatter sound - a bookcase behind your speakers or on a side wall can do wonders. But again, if you’re using diffusion on the left wall, use it in as similar a way as possible on the right. Most people agree that at the first point of reflection, absorb the sound. I created hybrid diffuser/absorber panels that have a random “grate” on the front, but absorbing material behind. The other bugaboo is bass - the more you can absorb, the more you’ll hear exactly what’s coming out of your speakers. Thick curtains, padded furniture, and bass traps in all corners (if you’re allowed) will really help. Don’t forget about the floor and ceiling that reflect sound as well - at the very least lay a good area rug on the floor between the speakers and listening position.
Do some reading - there is a lot of stuff out there to give you great ideas. And depending on where you live, you might be able to find someone connected to a high-end stereo or even sound treatment company who could come out and advise. Sure they’ll charge, and try to sell you panels, traps, etc., but if you’re clear up-front that you only want advice and you’re going to do most of it (or all of it) yourself, they should be a great resource.
Not familiar with Mighty Sam McClain, but with that name and the looks of that album cover, there’s GOT to be some good drums going on!
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I have been reading up on proper placement and absorption/diffusion. Pretty much anything related I can find and have made huge improvements applying what I’ve learned. I really had no clue about speaker placement. The first time I pulled my speakers out away from the walls I was blown away. Now my speakers are about 3’ into the room and 33in away from the side walls and the room is 12x14. I recently spent a couple days moving my sub around trying to fix a good sized dip in bass from 42hz - 52hz but couldn’t fix it. I followed Rel’s advice and have it in the corner angled across the room towards the opposite corner. I’m happy with the bass but would like to fix that dip a bit. Lot’s of improvement to be made here. I did add sound absorbing curtains which helped. I put a pillow behind my monitor closest to the speaker sometimes which helps a lot too. Oh and some pillows rolled up in blankets in one corner as a ghetto bass trap 
A true work in progress over here but I’m slowly starting to get somewhere.
Thank you for the advice and that Sam McClain is a great listen, enjoy!
I was surprised by that also. Thanks for posting the correct version.
Thanks for the recommendation. I will give it a ride. Cranker. Love it! ‘Boys of Summer’ is another Henley cranker.
Many thanks! Qobuz fav queued up for the next session.
One of many revelations during this journey is the realization that I’m a pretty unsophisticated listener of classical and jazz. Even though my rock upbringing should have a clue, I didn’t realize how many sub genres exist within classical and jazz. I have to admit that I lean on the poppy side of both.
I’m listening to a disc that made me think of this thread and I can recommend it for the sensitive and so well-balanced recording of the drum set for most tunes and the two drum sets for those tracks that feature an additional drummer.
On all tracks Brian Blades masterful drumming is so well-recorded–one can hear all his subtle strokes and feel the force when he applies it. He is truly supporting each composition, adding drama and drive, sensitively coloring in quiet spaces. James Farber the engineer has captured his precise touch on the cymbals which incorporate both swing and accent, and in organic meld with the drums. When Jose Rossy is also on board each drummer is disctinct and their expressive sounds fill the sound so dynamically.
Farber excelled on this one–each instrument is there with the others in their own space. And they are all telling the story. Mark Turner is exhibiting and being captured at his inventive and technical best–he shows off a bit his speed and mastery of articulation while also presenting his constant lyricism. This was a tour de force for him in my estimation.
Mark Turner “In this World” Warner Bros cd
There’s just way too much music to listen to, so we all have to draw some lines. My range of interests might be the widest I know, but as with my diet, I think of the bumper sticker someone told me about: “Cajuns make better lovers - they’ll eat anything.” I do love it when people say something like, “I had no idea [pick a genre] would communicate with me like that.” Try things on, relax and get rid of pre-conceptions, ask yourself questions like “what is it that other people love so much about this?” I think often of a roommate I had in college - he’s still like this - who can find something good in anything. I would look down my nose at some piece of crap pop song and he’d say, “But did you hear how they substituted that A-minor-7 chord in the last chorus?”
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