I’d not worry too much about Paul‘s mind changes as long as you’re not angry to have followed him before the change and missed something, may it be the no/yes preamp or the no/yes tube change or maybe others. Both mind changes have good reason imo as they are right at the end. I rather struggle with the question why Paul didn’t discover this before, as so many did. I do believe he didn’t make the positive experience before and Unthinkable he didn’t just decide differently due to sales/marketing considerations.
Yes there are preamps which make such a dramatic change to the better that you’d notice within seconds (inspite or because of more electronic parts involved).
But I’m sure there are also many setups where the preamps people try don’t improve the sound or might even make it a little worse.
As always it’s individual. People who don’t hear a preamp improving sound just should not think that’s a fact also outside their environment or experience, but it might be a fact in theirs.
I knew I should have kept schtum @Dirk is right in that I don’t have the BHK power, or the DS DAC, so in my world the ADC method provides the best option for me, and that may apply to the OP too, but in the heady world of PS Audio BHKs and DS DACs, there in indeed a general consensus that the BHK pre is a big improvement.
I second the suggestion of a “BHK Pre Junior” though I doubt it will happen, PSA seem pretty busy with other stuff for some time to come.
So for the OP’s question - is there a sub-3k preamp that will have as impressive a benefit as the BHK pre but with less facilities etc.?
p.s. “schtum” auto-corrects to “scrotum” in this browser, which probably tells me to shut up
I went quite a long time happily using the volume control in my DSD. It sounds great.
But then I got a really excellent preamp and everything changed.
There are people who feel that the preamp is the heart of the system and I’m one of them.
All that said, my opinion is that you won’t find an improvement over the sound of your DSD within your $2000 budget.
So be happy with what you have. it’s excellent.
Curious way to put the question. If the question is whether a preamp is ‘necessary’ to improve the SQ of replay of natively digital source material, of course the answer is no. However I am one of those who spins vinyl specifically to hear great recordings that were natively recorded in analog replayed as analog. So, that question I could argue for those like me isn’t really even relevant. A preamp is necessary. Period. And since that is the case, it needs to be excellent, hence my BHK Pre.
Call me a purist … my two cents worth
I’m certainly not a jingoistic flag-waver or PS Audio apologist.!! You would have to delve deep to find the reason why.
Anyway, I own 14 PSA products which includes BHK preamp, 2 x BHK250s & BHK300s. I do not use any of the BHK range.! That said - when I did use the BHKs, the introduction of the BHK preamp was a ‘big improvement’.
Fact. One buys a new product because when listening to a new product it performs better than the product it replaces. Installing the BHK preamp is as significant. Pointless exercise otherwise, you should at least listen to a BHK preamp in your system.
Otherwise it’s a series of suggestions - from some people with good intentions but, ultimately, amount to nothing because they have no first hand experience. Just because you cannot afford BHK preamp it isn’t prudent spending 2k on a whim.!
I have zero affiliation with PSA other that I own their products. I only offer you my experience.
At least I didn’t start the “controversy”. As to the OP, I too am running the DSSr. directly into a Balanced miniDSP via XLR with a 24/48 DAC (for my Series I/II 901’s) and then out to my M700’s.
When I switch over to the STAX Tube Hybrid (Japanese 100VAC SRM-007tA) with the Koss Drop ESP/95X. I have to swap output XLR Cables at the back of the DSSr. I’m obviously no longer connected to the miniDSP’s but to the XLR inputs of the STAX which also acts as a “Preamp” of sorts (it has 3 inputs and a Volume Control).
If I could afford the BHK Preamp, I’d go for it just for the mere convenience of not having to physically change XLR cables every time I want to hear TV/Music/Headphones.
My next project, a manual XLR switchbox. I’m gutting a DIY Pass B1 Buffer that actually rolled off the highs when put inline between the DSSr. and the M700 Amps. I could never the Pot to work properly either. Too bad cause others that have built it say it improved the overall sound of their various rugs.
My 2 cents: I wouldn’t dare to say it’s NECESSARY but the preamps that I use (Decware ZTPRE and Decware CSP3 with 25th Anniversry mods) definitely improve the sound of the DSD in my system. Both are listed for more than 2000 dollars however.
Psalvet, your system would sound better with a BHK Preamp, no doubt. I can say that because I had your system and then added the preamp. It got better. That said, if you are enjoying your system, why rush to upgrade?
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If you do have the urge to upgrade and a $2000 budget, my suggestion would be buy a used PS Audio P10 power plant. You will not regret it!!!
I don’t like digital volume control. Everything I’ve read says it cannot be as accurate as a proper analog design as it must first reduce bit depth. However, it can be better than a poor analog design. But, also, always trust your ears.
Also remember that all the BHK stuff has a tube input stage. The tube will add a sound signature / color that the DAC can’t (and you can change that signature by rolling tubes). I don’t doubt that DS -> BHK Pre -> BHK Amp sounds different than DS -> Amp as the Pre is adding an additional tube stage in the analog path. For those using SS Amp then adding even the single tube input stage from the Pre will change the sound. Most people find tubes very pleasant. Does that mean they are hearing better sound quality?
I think you’ll find some will tell you that tubes are necessary to improve sound quality. (and… I may be starting to agree with them but I just started getting into gear with tube stages).
@Jedi Already mentioned the Freya preamps. The Freya+ has a neat trick of being able to operate in 3 modes; passive, differential buffer stage, and tube stage. It uses a 128-step relay for volume. Interesting design and does get good reviews.
Thanks to you and Jedi for recommending the Shiit (I’ll never get used to that name). I started to read up on it and it seems worth exploring and trialing. The price is certainly right.
But nothing is easy, is it? Shiit tubes or solid state. The choices never stop.
Your comment that simply by virtue of having tubes, any preamp such as the BHK and the Shiit Freya + will sound different, is worth remembering.
I very much appreciate your feedback and everyone who has commented so far, including advice like (and I’m paraphrasing) be happy with what you can afford, do nothing is a viable option, and look at the previously personally unexplored pro world. I do love this forum.
Now, in the event that PS Audio might consider a BHK preamp Jr… Nah! As a commenter said, the company has too much going on, and a Jr. might take high margin sales away from a Sr. Not good for business, even if it might benefit a few of us customers driven by other PS Audio purchases near the poverty line
I’ve tried the various Schiit Freya preamps…you are better off saving your money and sticking with the DirectStream to control volume. Don’t get me wrong, I like Schiit, but the Freya preamps are meh…that why I have a Don Sachs preamp now…not meh!
Fortunately it is untrue digital volume controls “must first reduce bit depth.” The DSD volume control does not lose any data in its operation. All input bits are represented in the one bit output.
My advice would be to start looking for a used BHK preamp. I used the run the DSD Sr directly into my BHK 250 and was quite content with the sound, despite the advice of others, mainly Dirk, advising me how much better everything sounded when the signal was passed through the BHK preamp. The addition of the preamp elevated the musicality of my system to a whole nother level. It wasn’t just a matter of adding a certain flavor to the sound. There was an increase in resolution, dynamics, bass impact, and imaging depth, width and specificity.
There is no way I could ever go back to running the DSD directly into my BHK 250 again.
I used my DS(sr) to directly drive my amp for four years, during which time I was very impressed with the sound . I was always curious whether the “hype” about the BHK preamp was . . . hype. I bought a new BHK pre a couple of weeks ago and it really did improve the performance of my system. I really appreciate the additional gain - the most obvious change, and the better bass response, which is tighter, better controlled, and overall more authoritative. Less obvious, but still apparent to my “non-golden-ear’d” ears is an increase in openness, which comes across as being less constrained than the DS -direct-to amp setup. On the majority of the music I’ve listened to thus far, this added feel of effortlessness opens up the width of my soundstage.
For me, the addition of the BHK preamp actually took my DS(sr) to another level. I could never readily - if at all- hear improvements when upgrading the DS(sr) to new firmware updates. I didn’t have to strain or work at hearing the immediately obvious improvements after inserting the BHK pre brand new right out-of-the box.
I switch back and forth quite a bit these days. I’ve set up my system so I can have the main system on as background while I do other things and not burn hours on very expensive preamp tubes (Sophia).
With the preamp, sound from the DS is dynamic, powerful, and impossible to ignore (even at low volume). Without the preamp, sound from the DS is still good, but doesn’t command the same attention, and let’s me put my focus elsewhere.
Both configurations sound great (preamp/no preamp), but if I want that kind of live, riveting experience, I need whatever my all tube (including rectification) preamp does.
Many have stated improvements with using a pre verses the DSS straight into the amp. I agree 100%!
That said, if it’s not a possibility at the moment - I would not give it another thought as far as enjoying the great sound using the DAC as the VC. I used it that way until I got the BHK.
