Well, I assume a $6K pre-amp has a better implementation of volume control than a DAC with good volume control. The issue is HOW much of an improvement and the OP experiment showed it’s NOT a significant or noticeable improvement. If all your equipment is top of line, zero compromise, then a pre-amp would tie it all together, but in a $10-20K system, with a good DAC like DS, the benefit isn’t worth the cost. Diminishing returns. Speakers, Amp, DAC, Source, Cables… then pre-amp.
You should try a BHK if you can. I know you said you tried but could not which is unfortunate as many preamps don’t ‘enhance’ the signal but for me the BHK does.
I am for the first time in more than 2 years without the preamp in my system, DS feeding M700 amps directly. The sound certainly isn’t bad or unlistenable in any way but the BHK does flesh out the sound image. It also reduces the system noise floor vs the DS direct (in my system).
Plus trying different tubes is great fun. There are unquantifiable changes in each different set of tubes I try. Some I like, some I don’t, some I grow to like.
Is it worth the $4k? I don’t know, is the BHK250 worth its selling price? I don’t know.
One cannot assume what will or will not work, every system is different as is every listener. They only thing which always fails is engaging in biased prejudgment - refusing to try because you have already decided what will occur.
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I used the OPA1632 balanced operational amplifier in the buffer. The layout is very simple, the datasheet shows everything. The system includes 4 resistors and capacitors in the power system. I assembled it with the shortest signal path. There is also a power supply +/- 12 V. By changing the value of the resistors, you can set almost any gain. For me, about 10 dB is optimal. In DSD I have a 20 dB attenuator turned on and I usually listen with the volume set to 70 - 90.
I attach photos. An additional brown cable with XLR plugs connects only the ground of the DMP to the ground of the DSD (pin 1 of both XLR connectors). This cable significantly improves the sound of my system. Apart from him, DMP with DSD are connected only with WW Platinum Starlight 7 HDMI cable.
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You seem to be thinking of a preamp as a purely passive device.
The output impedance of the transformers used in the Directstream DAC is 600 ohms. That is not really high.
The DSD output impedance is lower than 600 ohms, but still relatively high. This is important when using long cables. A circuit with a source with high output impedance is more sensitive to external disturbances.
When Stereophile reviewed the BHK preamp they used it with the Directstream Dac and noted changes in the sound with the preamp in the system vs driving the BHK 300’s directly. They too thought maybe it had to do with the transformer output of the DAC so they tried the preamp/amp combo with other Dacs with Active analog output stages. They found the same changes with them and wrote of the idea of impedance matching. Even Bascom King does not know exactly why the preamp does what it does. I tend to think of it as tube colorations but I don’t know either.
I politely and respectfully disagree with you. As many have said on here, the addition of a pre for them was enormous. Adding the BHK pre between my Jr and 250 was not minor. The volume control in the Jr is good, but it isn’t even fair stacked up next to the BHK. What an upgrade is worth to someone is going to depend on a lot of variables. I know for me at least, I highly value my BHK pre and it has found a VERY happy home in its spot in the rack.
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Also politely and respectfully, I would challenge any claims that a preamp does or does not improve the sound.
The main reason, as jamesh said, is that systems can be so very different. Something as apparently insignificant as a cable can can keep a preamp from excelling, or can make it tank.
So can, and I believe this is a huge variable, speaker placement. Anyone who has tried various placements on a decently revealing rig can attest to the fact that sometimes a few inches here or there can drastically change the revealing characteristics of a system.
Given that so many variables can impact the performance of a particular component, the only approximate way to gauge impact is to do a survey of customers who have tried it.
It is a very imperfect way to validate a claim, but it has a better chance at coming up with better guidance than a few comments from supporters or detractors.
Ultimately, however, given PS Audio’s extremely generous trial policies, we do ourselves a disservice by not trying a component in our rigs and our environments, using our often flawed hearing to do the evaluation.
The only obstacle, and perhaps one that is a deal closer for many, is being able to part with a few thousand dollars for 30 days.
After all, it does not matter if everyone who responds in a forum has a positive experience. Those comments simply supply guidance by those who care to share. A component has to work in our environment.
I have a DS DAC and DS Memory Player that feeds into my Marantz 8802a PRE/PRO and I’m super happy with the sound! The sound is definitely improved over my Oppo UDP 205 for 2 channel audio. I am super curious to hear how my set up would sound with a BHK Preamp though.
I used to have a 8802a in my system acting as a pre-amp, I thought it was ok until I replaced it with a BHK Pre - the improvement is orders of magnitude, not even close. The soundstage expansion was amazing to me.
According to Ted, DS Jr volume control is not as good. I asked if I could use it in my system without pre and he said it won’t be as good as DS senior. I once again clarify, ofcourse it’s gonna be better. But as one has to balance ROI of equipment and benefits, pre-amp is last on my list, specially if DAC volume control is decent.
lol why u gotta say that… now im wondering more! lol. Did u upgrade the tubes in the Pre or not? Everyone says to get the best sound of the BHK PRE, the stock tubes gotta get replaced.
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I’m currently using the stock tubes which I think perform well. Once my system stops evolving I’ll look into rolling but right now other system upgrades will probably yield larger improvements (and I never change more than one thing at a time).
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Yes, Ted’s 100% correct. It’s pretty far behind the Senior. Fair enough, I was just sharing my experience.
I don’t think you’ll be disappointed if you try it out. The DMP, DSD, and BHK pre are great together. I’ve said it before but the stock tubes are really good. Enough that I haven’t gotten the itch to roll them.
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Good to know James! Thanks!
I tried some very good preamps, but there are so many and I take previous reply posters at their word that their preamp additions were worthwhile. I did not try any of the preamps they mentioned..
I have to chime in and throw a vote for preamps in the chain (depending on the pre, of course). Both the BHK, and now the PL EVO 400 bring a more holographic, 3 dimensional soundstage with smoother mids, sweeter highs and an overall mellow tone. I never got as much enjoyment coming straight out of the DS DAC or Vega G2 (which also has a passive volume control).
Of course these preamps are either hybrid or full tube, so I think it’s the tubes that are improving my experience. I have used other solid state preamps that did little or nothing for my listening pleasure, so again it all comes down to listening as much as possible, and deciding for yourself.
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