Entry level vinyl rigs usually sound the most different from digital (tonality-wise) and for some provide a kind of positively compensating sound for certain recordings. But I guess you experienced, too, that you don’t get the revealing quality from such entry level rigs as from your digital.
Less revealing, but very nice also: I am not good at reviewer descriptions, but I guess organic and natural both come to mind.
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I do agree with you; and I now see it will be much more satisfying to get new (or well kept used) albums, as my modest system emphasizes the pops and scratches.
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Ooooh very nice. How do you like this combination?
It’s a challenging prospect to come up with an appropriate MC cart to pair with the low-mass SME 3009, so I’m very interested to hear your thoughts on it!
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I love it. My vinyl chain costs less than the cables of my streaming chain, and yet it is immensely satisfying.
The Ortofon replaced the old Shure of my father.
There’s also the sentimental aspect : I grew up with those records and that turntable. It was connected to an HH Scott amplifier, with HMV speakers.
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This is why I think I’d enjoy many elements of vinyl. On the digital side I owned the DSJ for several years. It’s a great DAC for sure, but I tired of its revealing ways and sold it. My Border Patrol SE-i is the complete opposite, no DSD, no over or upsampling, an antiquated Philips chip from 1990, and measures historically poorly. It’s not as revealing as the DSJ, but for me has a more organic and emotionally involving presentation.
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Yes I remember the discussion and I understand you.
I’d personally solve this problem at another part of the chain than the source, as you loose information otherwise by producing the sound you need. If you had a few tone controls (not that I’d propagate this or speak against vinyl on this level), you would make a different choice as then you’d have both, the information of a more revealing source and the tonality you need.
I know I said that I have no plans to upgrade soon, however if/when the upgrade bug occurs, where would you consider a good price/value “sweet spot” for getting closer to the digital rigs we have feeding DSD, BHK Pre… at what price point to you see a steeper (better) return on value vs diminishing returns?
I’m truely curious and I’m sure I will do tons of research, reading, etc to get my head around it as I have no appreciation on the value vs return on vinyl. I have little reference to go on as I either have heard entry systems at less than $1k or what I would consider world class 6-figure systems that best digital systems.
For instance, if I think I may want a better mid level system 2-3 years down the road - let’s say I would be willing to spend $10k total, would it make sense to purchase a $2-3k phono pre as my next step to set me up for the future - say a stellar phono or Modwright 9.0 phono - or is $10k not a good sweetspot, meaning either stick with entry or save up to spend $20k, 30k, 50k, 80k, (enter sweet spot here).
It’s in part tone. I have no qualms using tone controls, and in fact use them liberally. It’s more about personal tastes and emotional connection. Analytical vs organic. A feeling. And that’s as varied as what sort of food one prefers. Your well founded critique of entry level vinyl is precisely the reason I’m attracted to it. I pursued the revealing route and concluded only going so far down that road works best for me. There comes a point, to my tastes, where too much detail becomes unnatural. Where rather than it being a cohesive band, it becomes each band member standing in their own simultaneously lit spotlight, divided by shadow, and playing at the same time. I could hear exactly what each individual musician was playing in great clarity, but in a way that only technology could create and not how it sounds live, in person. I found revealing to be great for analytical examination - I genuinely enjoyed it at first, it was like WOW - but ultimately tiresome.
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You can’t guess how good I understand you. It’s the travel of every audiophile unfortunately. I just can tell you that there comes a point where this reverses again (even with partly the same equipment). But there’s no easy guideline how to reach it. Money alone doesn’t solve it, too complicated to shortly clarify it in this thread.
What your doing and hearing is right for your current situation, even if it’s not the road to improve soon. But better than having no fun now. Enjoy!
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Entry Level Vinyl, the gateway drug!
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thats interesting! i read Long time ago to get “real” very good vinyl “heaven” sound you should buy some turntable over 3000 dollars; Ps some ifi cheap dacs for 300 dollars makes my sound “analogue style” so i imagine a 3000 dollars dac, could be “heaven” i was born with cassette and cd, so i am more use to that sound, vinyl have a particular sound that feels i never get really use to;
original vinyls from the 50’s are great, because the have that special mastering tube sound, but i take some sacd or better 256 dsd remastering and i feel im in the 50’s show room:grinning: take for example Louis Armstrong 2hd 256dsd; and i feel no orter format can be better exept a 30 or 15ips feel to reel; but those reels are for milionares; you want the highes analogue format of for example a remastered Miles Davis kind of blue; in my opinion no other analogue format today can be better; Than a direct master tape transfers to reel to reel and for digital a dsd 256 transfers 
i had listen to needle drops in dsd 45rpm time out vinyl and i still prefer the sacd version, the vinyl has a greater soft drumm sound but loses in the highes frequencies when compared to the sacd!!
for me the bottom End stick to new reel to reels machines and Hope for releases in 15ips in the future(record the sacd or dsd versions to reel to reel) or get dsd and Hope for New 256 remasterings too!!!
I have boxes of great albums from the 1970s through 1980s in my basement. I have been looking at $500 to $700 TTs this week. It seems to me that if I spend that amount on a TT I can get decent sound and play my old records, most in mint condition. And if I want I can upgrade the deck with a better platter and cartridge. At $35 for a master recorded album, I am not sure it is worth it vs buying the CD or just getting the songs you want to hear streamed. But with a bank of a couple hundred albums, it seems worth a modest invest to me.
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Wow, what a treasure of a collection!
My general impression is mid level HiFi these days has substantially closed the gap on the high end. Not completely, obviously, but it has narrowed.
new guy here. new vinyl guy the past year. I read some where “go big or go home”. Digital is so good now a days that you have to invest in analog to get close. I Have been 95 % vinyl and just set up my digital again last week. You push play, skip tracks, adjust volume, pause… and its sounds amazing clear and crisp. BUT ( for me) the magic wears off quickly and you feel this calling to go back to vinyl. the past year buying records and listening has brought me closer to recorded music than I have ever been. well… Maybe the world shutting down for a year helped. 
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That’s really fascinating and great entry level vinyl nowadays seems capable of this.
When I had my first “high end” vinyl rig, which was an Ariston RD40 with a Linn K9 MM, besides the music, I still heard all the flaws. At this time, digital wasn’t that good either, but the TDA 1541 chip at least didn’t sound bright and harsh, rather the opposite too much.
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Welcome to the group @guf
Looking forward to hearing more about your journey.
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So I’ve really been enjoying the RT-85 and more than not, the vinyl provides a really great sound, given the small cost invested. I do think it offers an overall slightly warmer tone, that I don’t mind in some recordings, but provides almost too much lower overtones on some Albums. I noticed the plinth is quite lively - the iso feet do a good job of not allowing much pickup from the stand I’m using, but I’m sure it is picking up on overall bass waves in the room at times.
I ended up moving from the Genalex back to an Amperex 12au7 in my BHK pre to offset some of this - the Amperex offers a bit more air on top and slightly less bass. That helped a bit, however I’m not sure if there are other setup options to deaden a lively plinth… any suggestions, I’m open to trying as long as it doesn’t involve modding anything. For instance, can I sit anything with mass on the plinth without changing too much tone - again, consider me basically a noob when it comes to vinyl / setup.
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be sure to save these lovely old boxes to digital
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