Given the time and effort involved, and the cost of polished natural granite, plus tonnes of sand and cement, adhesive, grout and sealant, the idea of spending the same amount of money on one plastic box with relatively little inside does not compute in my head.
What I will say, if you think PSA components are heavy, you should try taking 40m2 of granite tiles off the back of a lorry.
Some years ago I was asked to help with a beach project at my sister’s summer cabin. My role in the project consisted of spreading two truck loads of sand evenly with a showel. Frankly, I’ll take a tube preamp over that any time.
Edit: But I do have a patio project of my own waiting so I may need to pick one of those as well. I will definitely use yours as an inspiration, the size and the look of the house plus fence would be about the same and yours does look very good.
Edit 2: Then there’s the question of whether the tonearm project and the patio project should be connected in series or parallel.
[I enjoy a bit of hard physical labour.
The point I am making is that expensive high-end audio with a limited market, high manufacture costs and very high distribution costs (dealer margins, marketing, shipping etc.) seems crazy when, as suggested by @psalvet, you compare to a home improvement project. You can say the same for expensive watches, cars, etc.
I do agree with your point. High end audio is expensive, but so are many other things. Say, you want a good road bike (a mountain bike for those in Colorado) - that’s easily the cost of a preamp and requires a lot of upkeeping. You want a nice watch, easily the cost of a high end cartridge and needs to be sent to Switzerland every now and then for servicing. Set of customised golf clubs, a high end interconnect. And so forth.
You definitely get a lot more bang for buck in a home improvement project but that’s more of a necessity and not directly comparable to the others which are more indulgences. For the latter, we have to choose our priorities but that priority should be lower than that of maintaining our homes (and relationships).
Anyway, time for me to run away. It’s almost 9am here and time to get active. Wish a nice evening to all you (assumed) Americans.
Patios are pretty noisy with a high damp-ing factor in the pouring rain, while the preamp still works pretty well. Much quieter in the snow, though.
Granite is dead quiet in the rain. Our plastic skylight, on the other hand, was like a drum even with moderate rain and made listening impossible. Replaced that as well with a glass thing that weighs a ton and is dead quiet even with rain hammering down on it.
Currently listening to Bartok’s “Out of Doors” piano suite, rather appropriate in the circumstances.
Forgive me but, you must be one of the people that believes there is no objective way of looking at art. Clearly never went to art school, did you?
Haha. That’s like saying to the person stating something seemingly heretical, “You clearly never went to church”. You (and Elk) would appear to be talking about Thinking about the Theory and Practice - the Science of it, as it were.
I think this is a confusion in terms. I’m saying that when you are listening to music, actually experiencing it in the moment (as with art), that is a profoundly subjective experience. As we step back from it, break it down into systems of theory and quantifiable bits, it moves away from the experience I’m referring to. But even then, it could be argued that THAT is also a very subjective experience. We can be sitting next to each other in Row 9 Center, with a near-as-dammit identical perspective on a live performance, and we are going to have utterly different experiences - in what ever ways you choose to parse it.
Let me take an example many of us here can noodle with.
I drove over to PS and picked up one of the first copies of the Octave recording. One of the things that struck me on first listen was how odd the mic perspective was. I had difficulty ignoring it. I emailed with Gus about it. Of course, once I knew exactly what it was, that only served to solidify my perception.
I emailed Elk about it, knowing he has recorded live instruments (as I have). He felt the same about it. I chose not to comment on it. As time went on and others got copies, the far more common response was that it was one of the more realistic recordings of a piano they had heard. Some who played piano felt it was like the sound they hear when seated at the keyboard (although the perspective is from the other side of the the keyboard, off the right side).
Many seem to not hear the time difference between the mics, or that the middle of the soundboard is underrepresented due to the separation of the omni mics. That was one of the first things that struck me, and I could not “unhear” it.
This is a fairly technical thing that is a result of my training, such that many, perhaps most - don’t hear it at all.
How is that not subjective? Yes - I could walk and talk someone who doesn’t hear it through it until they at least understood it, and thereby change their subjective experience of it. And so - then what? This hypothetical person “knows” something else of the science that may (or may not, if they are unable to process very short time differences) change their perception.
Are they “better off” now that they know “the objective reality” of the situation? Personally, I wish I could unhear it, as it is beautifully recorded in all other ways. I would trade my knowledge for the subjective experience of “I hear the piano in my room”.
And for many of us a highly intellectual experience as well.
For me, leaving one or the other out is to enjoy and appreciate only one-half of what art has to offer. Again, YMMV.
Of course, one can ignore the art and separately critique the recording itself.
Nice looking patio. Well worth the money. As far as the BHK pre, it’s certainly a bargain in the high end world. Really not that expensive comparatively . . . . I took advantage of a very generous promotional offering that PS tends to run once a year. If I needed a patio, it would be a priority over a preamp for sure.
My turn to…sigh.
Of Course it is Also an intellectual experience! Never said it wasn’t or should not be. Is your personal intellectual experience of music a universal, objectively verifiable thing? Or is it part of your subjective “experience” of music?
And no one ever stated you said it was not. Sheesh already.
Sorry if I read into your response and took “leaving one or the other out is to enjoy and appreciate only one-half of what art is about” as a negative comment on the quoted bit of my post. Sheesh.
I simply may not be cut out for this any more - hence my not posting these days. All anyone seems to do is talk past one another. I’m speaking very broadly here - not specifically about you or this Forum.
Participating in the forum is part of the intellectual experience badbeef . . . . Don’t stop!
Thanks for this. I will often evaluate if I like the way something was recorded. This is very different than if I like the music, sound quality, etc but… are the frequencies that were recorded present in a way that grabs my attention? This is probably why I find most music popular music “boring” as it’s all recorded the exact same way.
I was on the fence buying that album and missed the opportunity. Now I’m wondering, without any training at all, if I would have picked-up on the unique mic arrangement. I’ve often heard things and tried to research exactly what was done to record that way. I often find my favorite recordings have something or someone in common on the engineering side. Are they doing it the “right”, objective, way? I don’t know but it works for me.
Food for thought:
When you enjoy a beautiful sunrise or sunset…you admire the palette
of colors and the effect of the whole…
But do you ever stop to think of how the sunlight changes as it travels through the atmosphere the clouds or many angles of refraction creating the beauty we enjoy…?
Or the physics of it all…
Ever stop to think about the physics all the beautiful sunrise sunset pics on the photography thread?
Well perhaps ftops and focal lenses and shutter speed…
I already have the patio and all home improvement in my humble abode has been completed. With money burning a hole in my pocket, I thought to spread the wealth and do my bit keeping the economy afloat.
My patio is much different than yours. It’s a Southwest style patio. But I get why you prefer it over a preamp, particularly if you don’t deem a preamp necessary for you.
If you are like me, I love to have friends over, share a meal and good conversation outdoors. On a cloudless night looking at a star-filled sky you can’t beat the feeling. Even though the light is low in the picture it seems like quite a beautiful place.
Let’s not be so melodramatic. Either participate or don’t.
