I’m confused. I thought you said it was smooth originally and were very happy with it. I’m still in the happy camp. Smooth , open , non fatiguing. Way better than usb/RUR.
No chile pepper for me - if you read through months of posts you’ll get info on break in and sound impressions. Your experience is a first I believe. You won’t have any trouble selling it if you want to get rid of it.
AQ cables tend to be too “flavored” for my taste. Maybe the Mocha’s just not that great…
Yes, that was my first impression. It has many great qualities, but the more I listen the more sort of juiced up it sounds, a little aggressive. I’ll give it more time and keep monkeying with cables.
I bought a Mocha a few weeks ago after reading the WW v AQ debating here and finding one for $169 new with a 30 day return policy. Thought it was as good a deal as I was likely to find. My immediate impressions were that the upper end was rather edgy and the midbass wasn’t hitting like I’ve been used to. My own “budget shopper” in use was an eBay sleeper - Apollo AV Lightening V2. Flat geometry like WW, 5% silver. With respect to the other low cost gems mentioned here, I’d still say it’s as good an HDMI as one might find for $20. I was trying hard to deny there was anything better for under a grand and looked elsewhere to satisfy my upgrade compulsion.
It took 200 hours of burn in, running it as my TV’s connection to the FIOS box, before it showed its superiority. Now I have bloom that wasn’t there with the Apollo. Better tone to the bass. Overall a less closed-in, less flat sound. But I swapped back and forth at a few points along the way and Mocha wasn’t ever in the lead until after day 9 on the cable box. I was determined to take the 30 day return down to the wire because I didn’t want to leave any doubt about a $20 cable being the better choice for me. YMMV. The Mocha stays and the Apollo moves to the TV.
Now, I’d really like to run it against a WW Starlight 6 or 7 to see who’s boss.
2 Likes
Received the Matrix last week and listened a bit on Sat. Built like a tank. Impressive
Initial sound impressions (cold out of the box). Compared:
1 (Current Setup) Innuos Zenith MKII> Phasure Lush II USB>SotM tX-USBultra/Uptone LPS-1.2>Phasure Lush I USB>DS Sr
VS
2 Innuos Zenith MKII>Phasure Lush II USB>Matrix/Uptone LPS-1.2>Generic HDMI>DS Sr
Note: DS Sr is also new and only has 330 hours on it. Changed quite a bit in a week so I have quite a few variables here
In my system my current setup has much more weight to the instruments. Particularly noticeable on piano/guitar. Just sounds more realistic. Bass impact was reduced. Matrix seems a bit more laid back especially in the vocals.
Not that the Matrix sounds bad in any way (just different). The timbral changes were so dramatic vs my current setup that I didn’t notice if anything else might be improved/changed. I can 100% see if someone was coming from the Ethernet/Bridge II combo being all in on the Matrix because my USB setup blew that away.
Of course the Matrix is cold and needs to be burned in for a fair comparison so my plan is to run it for a week and try it again next weekend. It will need to get much closer for me to invest in a HDMI cable for a fair shootout.
1 Like
I found a thread that I found interesting here. If you scroll down a bit user Energy has a fairly lengthy post where he asserts that cable composition only matters at longer lengths and that at shorter lengths using silver vs copper has no audible effect. He goes on to explain why he thinks this is so and his arguments make sense to me. I found the thread because I was contemplating trying a Silver Starlight between my Singxer and DS. I am currently using the Starlight (Red clad). Thought the reasoning here could possibly shed light on why some folks here are hearing differences between the platinum/silver cables and those cables with less silver in them.
I’ve not read it, but most differences heard here are to do with how much noise differing cables add or subtract and at what frequency, and nothin to do with 0s and 1s (and perhaps a bit of jitter on toslink) any length of cable is applicable, not just cable over a set arbitrary length
I have found that different cables make a difference. Whether your system is transparent enough or your room is right will it then become apparent. It becomes a value proposition at that point. For my cables - I want something of good quality. It doesn’t have to be platinum for me - but something I know is doing a good job and fits with the overall tonality of my system. Obviously for my source (dac) and speakers I have gone pretty much all in given my pay grade etc. so I don’t necessarily want to risk going on the ultra cheap for cables when I do hear differences. The value proposition within reason is worth it to me. From a value perspective - I just can’t get to ‘platinum’. But I can get to silver starlight or mocha. 
1 Like
What Streamers will eliminate the need for Matrix and UpTone PSU type components. How will SQ be impacted? I have been researching the Aurender. Auralic and ROON lines and this thought just occurred.
Also, if some cables are eliminated, there are cost savings. Again, impact on SQ is a big question.
Love to read everyone’s opinions.
Chas
The really expensive ones 
Kidding aside, I’ve been able to a/b CD rips stored on my Aurender N100H vs the original CD playing on the DMP by toggling back and forth between the I2S and USB inputs of the DSD (Sr). I hear some slight differences in favor of the DMP, but “close enough” for my purposes.
With Tidal streams - it depends. I hear differences, but don’t know if it’s due to differences in the source files Tidal is using , or what. Tracks from CD via DMP and Tidal streams through the Aurender CAN sound reasonably close, but not always.
Somewhere back in this thread I recall someone reported using a Matrix with an Aurender N100H. I think the conclusion was that it helped, though I can’t recall by how much. At some point down the road I expect there to be a number of used Matrix boxes available and I’ll pick one up to experiment.
Also, @badbeef somewhere mentioned that he was using an Auralic Aires G2 and was quite happy with the SQ compared to his prior CA setup.
Hi @hthaller, toggling backward and forward between i2s an usb without disconnecting the other unused cable is not valid because no matter which input you have selected BOTH cables will be transmitting electrical noise and earth loops to the dac simultaneously which affects the sound balance. You have to completely remove the other unused cable to do this kind of test.
I have the N100H which has only a USB out. Experimented with regen/curious usb etc. Wanted to try toslink based on Ted’s recommendation. Got a cheap toslink converter and cheap cable. Sound with toslink set up was a revelation. Which lead to the desire to try I2s and have the ability to listen to all high res formats. Purchased the Matrix on Boots recommendation. This set up (along with PS and WW cable) didn’t just help, It has taken the sonics to another level entirely. Aurender with DS via USB sounds bland and uninvolving by comparison.
2 Likes
Hey magic. Yes my laptop is dedicated. I have an external usb hub and basically only need WiFi run jremote for jriver.
Busted 
I did see Ted’s posts on this topic, but I’d actually have to get up off the chair each time I wanted to switch inputs. 
I should also have added that the usb cable makes a difference, as well.
That said, I didn’t think there was that much difference listening to the DMP with the Aurender turned off (with the usb cable attached)- although that just means “in standby” so I suppose that would still allow some noise through.
Cudfoo’s reply is enough to get me to move these experiments up the list of priorities.
In that case you might want to take look at https://www.highend-audiopc.com/audiophile-optimizer
This is software theat optomizes your PC for audio it works well on Windows 10.
He is currently in beta for Version 3 (I am a beta tester) and have been a user for 4-5 years. He keeps finding ways to squeeze more performance out of the PC.
the best results are had with a purpose build desktop PC that allows you to optimize individual components like Power supplies cables CPUs ,etc. But just applying it ti a Laptop can have good benefits
Used to stream via BridgeII until i bought the Melco N1ZS10 (their former flagship). Despite its dedicated purified ethernet player port i preferred usb (Audioquest Diamong USB & RJ/E) by small margin.
Touching the Matrix i feel the same as @cudfoo, BridgeII i have now removed.
1 Like
I also have found the Matrix/ Mocha combo to be a bit edgy on the high end so far. Many positive improvements to the sound by the combo, but that edginess has proved bothersome. Will give it more break in time and see…
Hey Timm
I have been using Fidelizer (along with JPLAY, just the sttings) for over 2 years now. And just to put your mind at ease, YES, it is still bit perfect. Have tested it with Ted’s bit perfect files several times. Fidelizer does things to Windows as far as processes are concerned. Turns off ALL the crap that it does not need to play music. Trust me, if you like the free version, you’ll love the PRO. Does way more, sounds WAY better, and will boot with start up. Can also have it do it’s thing to your player software and boot it on start up as well. There are multiple setting to play with. Have fun.
On top of that, JPLAY classic (once agian just the settings) does it’s magic with the drivers for your player and music endpoint. In this case the Matrix. Just choose your end point (KS streaming works with Matrix) and off you go. Also multiple settings (TWEAKS) in it as well.
Fidelizer and JPLAY are designed to work together. The developers actually know each other. One does it’s thing and the other it’s thing. Together they are pretty fantastic. Just so you know…
Just my two cents…
Yes, I’ve given up on the mocha too. I think it’s problem is it’s too low down in the aq range, you probably have to go diamond to get a clean top end.
I’ve gone back to the cable below which is a cheap and, whilst it isn’t “right” for the price it sounds glorious. P.s. it looks every bit as horrible in real life as it does in the picture but has a very strong smooth top end 