Elk said It is the same technology in high performance engines.Those also blow up from time to time. Hmm ...
And let out magic blue smoke . . .
Elk said And let out magic blue smoke . . .It's surprising someone as experienced as Bascom has not figured out how to keep the magic blue smoke in...
It seems out to me as well.
Perhaps this is a new phase for Paul (and Bascom?) where he gets all wild and crazy with his products and presentation. Think Harvey Rosenberg and the Futterman OTL amps which were infamous for blowing up in spectacular fashion! If Paul starts wearing a kilt I’m outta here …
pmotz said Perhaps this is a new phase for Paul (and Bascom?) where he gets all wild and crazy with his products and presentation. Think Harvey Rosenberg and the Futterman OTL amps which were infamous for blowing up in spectacular fashion! If Paul starts wearing a kilt I'm outta here ....The late great Harvey Rosenberg... Good times.
Harvey was a hoot.
I also miss Listener magazine for which he wrote (Art Dudley’s publication).
Paul McGowan said The boards have been built. The input board, with the tubes, came up quickly and Bascom connected it to the front end of an existing amplifier he already had (and had designed) and almost fell over with how good it sounded - so good in fact he couldn't remove it and there it sits to this day. That one can add something in front of something else and improve the sonics significantly is a major achievement, better than we could have hoped for. Bodes well for turning that into a preamp.On the power amp output stage Bascom ran into a number of problems, one of which blew the thing up. That’s as far as it’s gotten. Looking hopeful.
OK, that was a month and a half ago. Sprout is now officially launched.
Anything new on amp?
Please?
Pretty please?
–SSW
I gotta get you to re-upload your avatar picture. It looks awful! Ok, so here’s where we are. The boards are all built. The tube input stage works great. We plugged it into the front end of Bascom’s all MOSFET prototype and that raised the sound quality up in a magnificent way, so this is a great path.
The boys are struggling right now with the bias circuitry for the output stage, which controls the thermal stability of the unit. This is one of those tricky things in engineering where it should work on paper but it doesn’t in practice. We can hack a fix or take the time to understand why the paper doesn’t match the model: we’re opting for the latter rather than the former. Once that gets sorted out we should be able to have our first listen. I am impatiently waiting…
Paul McGowan said I gotta get you to re-upload your avatar picture. It looks awful! Ok, so here's where we are. The boards are all built. The tube input stage works great. We plugged it into the front end of Bascom's all MOSFET prototype and that raised the sound quality up in a magnificent way, so this is a great path.The boys are struggling right now with the bias circuitry for the output stage, which controls the thermal stability of the unit. This is one of those tricky things in engineering where it should work on paper but it doesn’t in practice. We can hack a fix or take the time to understand why the paper doesn’t match the model: we’re opting for the latter rather than the former. Once that gets sorted out we should be able to have our first listen. I am impatiently waiting…
OK, fixed avatar for you.
Second, what tube did Bascom pick for the front end? 6H30 ‘super’ tube? Or the 6922, or . . . ?
Third, any luck on Bridge MkII? I’d have thought an ethernet-to-I2S converter would be a tad simpler than it’s turning out to be.
–SSW
Thanks! And now I can actually see what it is!
Tubes will be the 6 series you mention but we certainly haven’t found the one we’re going with. Here’s what I can tell you about tubes. They are bloody expensive. So the challenge will be to find a tube that’s readily available and somewhat affordable that we can ship the amp with - then suggest most people lose them and get an NOS or whatever style they want on their own. The tubes I am using currently are the 6HN23-EB that run $50 each and that’ll not be possible to include at the amp’s projected $7K price point. I know that sounds like a lot and then to worry about $100 in tubes, but this is one silly expensive beast to build!
The MKII Bridge project goes along fine, we’re polishing firmware. It is one of the most technically challenging projects we’ve tackled, not sure where you’d get the idea it might be simple. Nothing over a network is simple.
Ah, that confused me a bit. Couldn’t find it for a while.The actual tube part number is 6H23N-EB, it’s a drop-in replacement for the 6922.
Lots of cheaper options at http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6922-E88CC-Tube-Types
Don’t forget, though, that if you put in a ‘cheap’ tube then all reviews will be based on the tube you put in
Bah. There are more 6922 options than 6H30. I was kinda hoping I could stick with one tube type between my preamp and the PWA. Darn.
–SSW
Thanks for the update Paul, but a $7K price point? Ouch! If it sounds as good as you say it may well be worth that, but … out of my (and most likely many others) price range. Still have to find funds for a DS, guess I’ll keep my Audio Research Classic 60 amp for a while longer.
Paul I just can’t do 7k for an amp. It just doesn’t fit into my budget. It really was a stretch for a modified PWD to Directstream. Is there anything else in play in the amp category between a 7k amp and a Sprout. I currently have the HCA-2 that has been in your shop twice for repairs over its lifetime. i was hoping for a PS audio replacement but I just can’t do the 7k.
Paul McGowan said Tubes will be the 6 series you mention but we certainly haven't found the one we're going with. Here's what I can tell you about tubes. They are bloody expensive. So the challenge will be to find a tube that's readily available and somewhat affordable that we can ship the amp with - then suggest most people lose them and get an NOS or whatever style they want on their own. The tubes I am using currently are the 6HN23-EB that run $50 each and that'll not be possible to include...It's all relative. Frank Van Alstine is still using 12AT7 tubes in his hybrid. The amp sounds just fine with the stock tubes, but if you really want to get to the best possible sound NOS (IMO) is necessary. Even if you have to go to a more practical tube for retail sale, $100 for a pair of upgrade 6HN23s is peanuts compared to the price of TFK ECC801S or Valvo 6201 Blue labels!
I know. It’s not the price point I was hoping for. We wanted to do $5K instead so it’s the same price as a P10 - the chassis that it’s in - but that was only a pipe dream. Inside the P10 is only one power amplifier, not two. Inside the P10 there’s only one power transformer, not the three we need for this amp. Inside the P10 is some fairly simply input circuitry, in the unit we’re adding expensive tubes, regulators, drawers to access the tubes - and the laundry list goes on of extra added expenses the amp has the P10 does not.
That’s just life in manufacturing. I dream this thing up, figure we can slide it into a P10 chassis, add a tube stage to the front end and we’re good. Then reality sets in, my engineers patiently point out all the missing gaps in my logic. Then $5K turns to $6K and then settles in at $7K. It’s what happened on DirectStream, it’s happened on the amp.
Having written that, however, I am adamant I am not bending on this product’s quality. Maybe we only sell a few, and that would be a disappointment, but at my age I am not interested in making products that aren’t the best in the world anymore. And I don’t mean the best for a price, I mean the best in the world price-no object. It’s what I believe DirectStream represents and it’s the goal with this amp as well.
I am all in. Go strong or go home.
If the amp’s a success, there’s no reason we can’t eventually make a lesser/smaller version; and probably will. But this first one will be the best in the world, or I won’t release it. And yes, that’ll set you back $7K but it’ll not only be worth it, for those that can scrape the coin together, but it’ll blow the doors off other amps costing several times that.
In my latest quest to improve my system, I’ve been reviewing the pricing of new and used tube amplification. I’m happy with my tube amps, but feel the need to have extra amp on board, for emergencies, as I have now. My Bryston 3B-ST just isn’t cutting it anymore. The combination of my Oppo/DS-DAC and the Macintosh MC30s is just too good, too real, too intoxicating, to go backwards.
I’ve looked at entry level VTLs (new, the IT-85 Integrated goes for around $4,700; the ST-85 Stereo amp goes for around $3,000), and scouring the used market, as well, for amps (or integrateds) within my budget. I just missed out on two VTLs on eBay that sold for less $2,000.
My point is that $7,000 – while out of pmotz’s price range (and certainly mine, as well) – is not unreasonable for a dual-mono amp. I wish it would be less expensive but I know exactly what Paul is saying about “mission creep” and pricing. I greatly admire the “I am all in, go strong or go home” ethos. It’s what makes great products that folks like us will buy again and again.
Paul McGowan said Having written that, however, I am adamant I am not bending on this product's quality. Maybe we only sell a few, and that would be a disappointment, but at my age I am not interested in making products that aren't the best in the world anymore. And I don't mean the best for a price, I mean the best in the world price-no object. It's what I believe DirectStream represents and it's the goal with this amp as well.I am all in. Go strong or go home.
Way to go Paul! I was disappointed at first because 7K means I won’t get one, but that’s OK; your heart and soul are obviously in this, and if you can make the best amp in the world, that’s what you should do. You’ve given us a wonderful gift with DS, which I will go and enjoy after sending this email and think about amps some other time.
If this amp holds promise, it is a steal, IMO.
Paul McGowan saidHaving written that, however, I am adamant I am not bending on this product’s quality. Maybe we only sell a few, and that would be a disappointment, but at my age I am not interested in making products that aren’t the best in the world anymore. And I don’t mean the best for a price, I mean the best in the world price-no object. It’s what I believe DirectStream represents and it’s the goal with this amp as well.
I am all in. Go strong or go home
I hope that same philosophy is applied to the Bridge 2, as in gapless etc. Maybe that’s why it’s taking so long. No hurry. I know you’ll get it right.
As far as the amp goes would love to see an integrated with this much care put into it. From what I’m reading the DS could benefit from an integrated or a pre. to boost the output.
I know the first paragraph belongs in another topic but the quote was grabbed from here, soI ain’t got a clue how to move this reply to the Bridge topic.
Anyway Paul that’s a good philosophy!