Quick review of the new Denafrips Hermes DDC used with the Directstream DAC

[jkrichards]

@Baldy

You can doll them up, paint them or chrome plate them if you are careful. But in the end you still have what you started with.

If looks is what you are after you may be correct however in audio you would be horribly wrong.

[jkrichards]

@yacheah

My take from what he says is if you wish to convert only a single USB output to something else then the SU-6 is the better DDC performance wise.

How can that be as the parts and design in the Hermes is twice the quality of what the SU-6 has.

[vkennedy61]

@Baldy

I was responding to @vkennedy61 's post about the KTE-SU2 that he appears to have.

Yes, I have had the KTE SU-2 for almost a year. Initially I purchased it strictly for late night TV listening via headphone. It was converting USB out of a Nvidia Shield Pro to Digital Coax which then went to a Sony TA-ZH1ES headphone amp/DAC. The SU-2 passed up to 192/24. In this configuration it sounded fantastic.

In August we purchased a new TV that has Optical out so I switched to that for the TA-ZH1ES, freeing up the SU-2 to play with our DS. I currently use an ultraRendu USB input to the SU-2 and have tested AES, digital coax, and I2S to the DS. To my ears the I2S sounds better <insert audiophile words describing “better”>.

If you are convinced that an outboard power supply is mandatory, this isn’t for you. I have tried it plugged into a Transparent Power wave and a P10. P10 power sounds much better <insert audiophile words describing “better”>.

Lastly, the build is solid. All of the connection are excellent. There’s no trigger or remote. It’s either on/off via the rear power switch. I leave mine on.

I hope this helps.

[Baldy]

Does it need to be connected to a PC for direction or is it smart enough to figure out what is plugged in where?

[yacheah]

@jkrichards

How can that be as the parts and design in the Hermes is twice the quality of what the SU-6 has.

I have no idea. I have no skin in the game so to speak.

I don’t know which is better personally. Just relaying advice from a friend who has tried all three.

As I said before, if I were to get one it would likely be a Denafrips simply for the reason that it accepts more than just a USB input. Except my recently acquired old school transport sounds that much better than my previous one even without any reclocking that I am beginning to wonder if it is necessary at all.

My motivation was to simplify and reduce the number of cleaners / fixers in my system if possible while still maintaining the sonics if not improving them.

[jkrichards]

@yacheah

I don’t know which is better personally. Just relaying advice from a friend who has tried all three.

I did a couple weeks of research before I purchased the Hermes and found that many thought the KTE-SU2 was not as good as the Matrix 2 so it wasn’t even on the radar for me. I narrowed it down to the Iris, Hermes and the Matrix 2. The Iris is not compatible with the DS and the Hermes had better quality parts and also had more inputs then the Matrix 2.

[psalvet]

You are correct. However, I sold my DSD DAC after comparing it to both the Ares II and the Pontus II. Both sounded better in my rigs.

To the Ares II I go via optical from the Iris in my near field system. Optical does not offer 100% of the i2s improvement potential but the improvement is significant nonetheless. The i2s output from the Iris goes to the Pontus II in my main system.

The sale of the Directstream DAC more than paid for all three Denafrips products. Having to use optical in my desktop system to go Iris to Ares II was the very modest tradeoff.

[jkrichards]

@psalvet

You are correct. However, I sold my DSD DAC after comparing it to both the Ares II and the Pontus II. Both sounded better in my rigs.

I would have to agree with you until I upgraded my Directstream DAC. I had compared the Ares II and the Pontus II to the upgraded DS and sold both the Ares and Pontus. This was using the USB input. Now using the I2s input on the DS it’s amazing. If I ever get the itch to try another DAC it will be the Terminator II or the Terminator-Plus.

[psalvet]

I am glad you found the combination that worked for you. So much is dependent on all the things you already know about. In this hobby, as in many other areas of life, synergy is king (or queen).

[jkrichards]

@psalvet

In this hobby, as in many other areas of life, synergy is king (or queen).

Couldn’t agree more. Cheers!

[vkennedy61]

@Baldy

Does it need to be connected to a PC for direction or is it smart enough to figure out what is plugged in where?

Sorry, I am not sure if I understand your question, but like I do at home with my Wife, I’ll answer anyway

The KTE SU-2 only has one input and that’s USB. Everything else is an output. I’ve tried it with the output from an nVidia Shield Pro and with the output of a Sonore ultraRendu. The source for the uRendu is Roon over Ethernet.

Is this what you are after?

[vkennedy61]

@jkrichards

many thought the KTE-SU2 was not as good as the Matrix 2

Now that I have tested! I kept the KTE and sold the Matrix 2. To me, the Matrix wasn’t as “clear” to my ears.

[Baldy]

Not exactly but I think you answered the question.
What I meant was does a PC (or Mac) need to be sending the music to the KTE-SU2 USB input or can I just send the streamer output via it’s USB output to the KTE-SU2 and then does it automatically output from whichever port is connected? I would be using KTE’s i2s output to the DSD.
Thanks for the help

[jsawyer09]

Great (and timely) thread, @jkrichards! Your shared experience with the Denafrips Hermes DDC is appreciated. I can’t help but think you’ve captured the essence of what it does quite nicely. I recently splurged on the Denafrips Pontus II DAC and Hermes DDC; in fact, I received the combo just going on a couple of weeks ago. I had thought about doing a proper write-up, but between what you’ve already stated here and how the HiFi Knights author opined with regard to his experiences with the Gaia DDC, I don’t think there’s much to add here.

In my time with the two, I’d have to say that they are two very remarkable products. There’s little question about that. I have a pretty resolving system. I tee this up in this manner because it comes with a fairly substantial ‘but’ in my case…

I have an all-Naim system, with an NDX 2 streamer as my digital source (powered by its XPS-DR power supply). I’ve used the onboard DAC, a few different Chord DACs and now these two Denafrips units. The NDX 2 is currently used as transport, with a Nordost Silver Shadow BNC-BNC cable fed to the Hermes IN; it is then converted to i2S with an Audioquest Thunderbird 48 HDMI (was using a Wireworld Ultraviolet 7) from the Hermes to the Pontus II. Having listened and lived with the sound thus far, I can say without question that it does contribute a lot of the attributes that have been mentioned. That said, they are very subtle in my system. This ends up being quite a conundrum, as sonically it is outstanding, but not a night v. day or transformative endeavor within the context of the system, and that in itself exists quite a spendy proposition—to shell out that kind of money for a minor, yet satisfying, generally perceived uplift in music reproduction. I suppose what I’m saying is that I’m more in line with the experiences of Mr. Grzyb; I’m just not convinced my system is what the Pontus II/Hermes is aimed at. Perhaps if I had a lesser streaming source or a true computer audio kit the juice would be well more worth the squeeze.

I’m going to give it some more time in my listening room, but I wouldn’t be surprised if at the end of the day it gets moved on. It’s one of the chances one takes with the inability to home audition. I wouldn’t discourage anyone to look into any Denafrips DAC or DDC. Their build and CS are top-notch, performance first-rate and their input options galore make much of what they’re doing future-proof. I just think I’d have to agree that if your source and power is sorted, there’s very little benefit to be had. Not that it isn’t there. It is. It’s just price-to-benefit ratio for me has me second-guessing the effort.

Thanks again for your thoughts and those of others as well. Quite interesting times we’re living in.

[vkennedy61]

@Baldy

What I meant was does a PC (or Mac) need to be sending the music to the KTE-SU2 USB input or can I just send the streamer output

Ahh got it!

I just send the output of my ultraRendu, no direct computer connection. I have:

ultraRendu → USB → KTE SU-2 → I2S → DS

[vkennedy61]

Damnit!! Now I want to test the Hermes.

I’m going to put this into my backlog and do this testing. I’ll need to look into Denafrips trial period.

Man, this forum is like an expensive endcap at the grocery store. Endcaps usually have inexpensive incidentals. Here incidentals are usually in multiples of $1000.

[scotte1]

@jsawyer09

This ends up being quite a conundrum, as sonically it is outstanding, but not a night v. day or transformative endeavor within the context of the system, and that in itself exists quite a spendy proposition—to shell out that kind of money for a minor, yet satisfying, generally perceived uplift in music reproduction. I suppose what I’m saying is that I’m more in line with the experiences of Mr. Grzyb; I’m just not convinced my system is what the Pontus II/Hermes is aimed at. Perhaps if I had a lesser streaming source or a true computer audio kit the juice would be well more worth the squeeze.

This makes PERFECT sense to me, as I have drawn a similar conclusion from time to time with different kit, tweaks, etc.

Enjoy the process (and the music).

[jkrichards]

@jsawyer09

Perhaps if I had a lesser streaming source or a true computer audio kit the juice would be well more worth the squeeze.

If I didn’t use a PC’s USB connection to stream music I would not have purchased the Hermes. I don’t think it would be worth using the Hermes with a streamer that is connected to the DAC via it’s I2s output. That’s probably why you hear little difference using the Hermes with your streamer. The reason I even considered a DDC was to get a cleaner connection from a noisy USB port of the PC to the DAC’s I2s input. I have no desire to use a streamer that I can’t customize for my exact needs. JRiver Media Center gives me the flexibility I desire. With a dedicated streamer you are stuck with a user interface that the manufacture thinks is best.

[jkrichards]

@vkennedy61

ultraRendu → USB → KTE SU-2 → I2S → DS

I think you would only hear an improvement if the USB port on your ultraRendu is noisy like a PC’s USB port. I’m not even sure the Hermes would recognize the ultraRendu is connected (depends on the OS).

[jkrichards]

@vkennedy61

I’ll need to look into Denafrips trial period.

Denafrips has no trial period. No returns.