On my system with dad and bridge II quobuz with roon from nucleus is better than tidal as well
Same here - Qobuz is consistently better than Tidal in my system - itâs not even that close.
Did not dad
1 more time DSD
Qobuz sounds better when itâs sunny and Tidal when itâs raining. Someone explain that.
Melco are one of the manufacturers who provide an ethernet direct link to the player (streamer), like Innuos and Antipodes. Antipodes also provide I2S. I use that route. Both are much more expensive than Innuos, the Melco seems a bit overpriced but the Antipodes is meant to be fantastic. Not heard it.
I can not imagine a situation where building a new truck is less expensive than adding isolation to what you already have -especially since the new truck will also likely benefit from said isolation techniques.
Itâs not a truck, itâs a svelte little thing with far fewer parts and functionality. There are several of these servers that are cheaper than a Mac mini, and a Mac mini needs external storage added.
You need to have a look at these devices from Roon, Innuos, Melco, etc before suggesting how they compare to desktop computers. To their credit, apple have drastically reduced the power consumption of the Mac Mini, but it still has a big switch mode power supply inside. These servers tend to have peak power consumption of about 15w and can be run off a battery.
Innuos have just brought out a device that dramatically improves a computer USB output. It uses reclocking tech they developed for their Statement server and power supplies in the Mk3 models.
http://www.innuos.com/uploads/cms/docs/Innuos_PhoenixUSB_webFlyer.pdf
So they offer answers for usb computer users as well.
Incidentally, I do agree with you on the power thing, these units do benefit from clean power, mine is fed with Shunyata cabling and filtering, as is the rest of the audio system. It may not be necessary for the Innuos as it has a medical grade mains filter built in (another thing you donât get on a Mac Mini).
Couldnât agree more with this statement! I have been running roon itself since its inception. From my experience upon its initial release, I would agree that sound quality was not as good as JPLAY with J River Media Center, but that was prior to ROCK. With Roon Rock on a dedicated I5 with isolated power and only used as a server (not directly connected to a DAC), the sound quality has improved significantly. In my system, the Roon server sits in a different room, and sends network data to an SOTM 200 Ultra (also not sitting in my audio rack). SOTM USB out via USB Optical to a Matrix SPDIF 2 â I2S to my direct stream DAC. On several different occasions, I have done comparisons with Asset UPnP, JRMC and Foobar, as the server software running on Linux as well as optimized Windows Server 2012 and Roon is indistinguishable from all of them. As part of these comparisons, I have also compared against Ethernet to BII, and I prefer the Roon â SOTM â Matrix â i2S much better. IMHO, the discussion of Roonâs poor sound quality is unfounded in 2019, I think allot of this bad reputation was from Roonâs earlier software releases (which in my experience did not sound as good as other software). Also, I think if Roon server is directly connected to a DAC, and is not a purpose built streamer (such as Inuous, or others), the sound might suffer. This past spring I did a test, were I took the SOTM streamer out of the mix, and direct-connected my Roon Rock server via USB Optical cable to the Matrix which fed the DAC via i2s. This path definitely sounded harder, and more constrained than routing through SoTM 200 Ultra. I suspect those differences are due more to hardware driving the USB output versus the software being used. FWIW, both the SOTM 200 Ultra steamer and Matrix SDIF 2 are running on linear power supplies, and I suspect that may be the cause of why that path sounds better than a direct connect to Roon Server.
Roonâs UX, and integration with Tidal / Quobos, as well as the ability to stream to other inexpensive endpoints throughout my house make it an indispensable piece of software! I will not be changing unless BIII is a Roon end point, and even then it would need to out-perform the sound quality of the SotM 200 Ultra â Matrix Sdif 2 â I2S to DS DAC.
All that said, I am itching to try an Inuous Server. How does it sound USB connected to a DAC? I could eliminate several boxes, power supplies, and cables 
Think I was lucky to first use Roon this February on a dedicated server with no switching, fibre optic ethernet in and direct ethernet to streamer/DAC out (so no usb), plus Shunyata power and a battery-powered optical to CAT media converter. Roon is just another example of how long it takes to get something right, and when it is the take-up is huge.
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My experience is that, when feeding through the vivaldi upsampler ethernet port, it does not matter what is upstream. Be that roon, minimserver, lumin server. Also, it does not matter the hardware the server in run from (NAS, intel nuc, full PC - intel i9).
Being the software bit perfect, and the interface asynchronous, my take for sound differences between Roon or other server is that those diffferences derive from the implementation of the RAAT software versus the implementation of dlna/upnp software. In the dcs, both appear to be flawless, sounding the same. My theory surely does not explain the differences mentioned here, when audirvana and roon, outputting from usb to the same device, whith no DSP, sound different.
Everyone has a different opinion. When I tried Qobuz I found some tracks sounded better and some sounded worse. For me I didnât feel the need to switch from Tidal especially since most of the music I listen to was very sparse on Qobuz. Maybe one day I will give it another listen but honestly there really isnât that much of a difference to me.
I totally agree. I have listened to Roon on a dCS Rossini and Vivaldi and the sound was awesome. Easily some of the most enjoyable music I have ever listened to.
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Absolutely, everyone has there own experience. Tidal has definitely made strides in SQ since I subscribed. Also, the libraries are different. I actually use both! SQ differences are not that big, but, I feel like Qobuz has more hi res.
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Best Iâve ever heard is Vivaldi DcS and it was playing CDs. I donât think digital is one thing or another, I just focused on low noise and the result is pleasing. If I cold afford DcS I would.
You know, I completely agree. They are reasonably enough priced that it makes good sense to stream both Tidal and Qobuz.
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This is a great analogy, Steven. Allow me to add to it though. While power supply is important itâs not the most critical change. What we have discovered over many years of playing with these servers is the value of isolation. Isolation, between the noisy environment
and the digital audio signal is the key. Unfortunately, while improvements can be made, thereâs no way to isolate the digital audio signal from the computer without hardware changes - which is where the idea of an off the shelf Nuc or Linux box will never
get you where you want to go, no matter how much streamlining you apply.
What you have to do is physically isolate the output of the computer from the digital output and once isolated, then perform a re clock. This means isolating both physically and electrically.
I think the point you make is that is it a complicated business and there is no complete agreement on what is more or less important. Certainly low noise is important, which is what I focused on, no usb (a legacy protocol from the computer world) and no mains power near the signal path.
Having spoken to Innuos mostly, they recognise the importance of reclocking, but believe it should be done by the streamer/DAC. The DSD DAC does it by upsampling and the digital lens, so I understand. My own streamer unit reclocks, and there are many reclocking devices available. For that reason Innuos do not put reclocking in their servers, save for the uber Statement unit.
That said, recognising that many people still want to use consumer computers with usb output, they recently released a usb reclocker, for a sensible price, which I think follows your basic argument. Other options are simply to use optical cabling or wireless protocols.
The difficulty is that there are so many ways of doing things, the manufacturer must have a very difficult decision to make as to what to include in any particular product.
Totally agree with your summary. Love Roon interface and find all others clunky.