I meant exactly what I said – the essential part being omitted by my detractors – “in my system and IMO”. We agree when we agree – and we also agree to disagree when we do not. Cool.
I also listen to many recordings of acoustic guitar and lute – Weiss, Jacques and Cassals among them. But, regarding the topic at hand, I am really not concerned about low bars and high bars. I am very well aware of the differences between commercially-oriented recordings and “upper echelon sound reproduction”. In the end, regarding the topic at hand, I am concerned about what I like to listen to and how various recordings meet my needs of evaluating FW upgrades, especially Yale, as I run down my list of parameters. Some “lesser quality” recordings do fine for this purpose, in my system.
You mentioned Oscar Peterson regarding evaluating the piano. Peterson is a particular favorite of mine. I saw him live way back when. Norman Granz does a wonderful job with neutrality. Not only the piano work, but also the percussion and double bass, are superb on The Trio at The London House (Verve). The tonality is especially well rendered, in my system.
Did someone mention Yale being flat? I can’t find the post. If this was mentioned, may I note that Yale is anything but flat in my system. I attribute much of this to the over 40 room treatments in my room that incrementally improve sound stage and imaging. Especially important in this regard were the recent addition of the QOL and the RP-1, as well as a special tweak that I have been developing over the past year.
Yale is not flat and has air around each sound . It just needs more hang time or weight . It’s details are amazing . When I did an ab comparison to 2 other Uber dacs that I love that was what I took away . 121 has the weight but lacks the air I love . It’s why when I heard pike ibwqs so happy that the sound had moved in this direction weather by accident or design Yale is an evolution of pike for me . My hope is a blend of possible. I know it’s possible as I have it in 2 other dacs . It’s can be had .
I hoesntly did not think this dac could get this good until pike .
As much as I like the detailed discussion here I feel it lacks individual diversity . Having only one system simply for me does not get us close together as a group . If we had more than one system to compare the odds are greatly improved that we would hear more a like .
Now I am sure most or all will not get this concept and it’s sad as having it is fundimental . Paul does not mention his impressions in room 2 or 3 only one . This should be included in our discussions .
I feel the same way. Yale is not flat at all in my system. More weight? I am getting lots of weight. This may be system dependent. Not sure since, of course, I have not heard your system vs. mine. Having more than one system? It has taken me 10 years to put my system together. I don’t think I will go to a second system anytime soon since I am enjoying the music so much.
As the guy who mentioned the ‘elitist’ word, I’d like to withdraw any element of accusation, implied or otherwise, that might be construed as personal in nature. No place for such in this Forum.
There was possibly some reactive element to my comment. It does jar a bit with me when superlatives like ‘best’ are applied to things that are essentially subjective in nature, but that is my problem. As you’ve rightly pointed out, your own comments are subject to ‘IMO’. But, then, all our posts are just that, expressions of our opinions, and we don’t have to labour it.
You’ve argued passionately for your passion for music and that is good enough for me.
I understand that point and I am lucky to have a few . But I also got meets and hear and take some of my stuff . The ds and my server is one I do . Also some other dacs a d headphones amps . Thus has allowed me to hear great changes firm just one let’s dac like the ds. It may be why my views are a so odd to most or all here .
You would be shocked just different your dac sounds on other setups . It opens up a whole new world of problems for voicing it.
As the guy who mentioned the ‘elitist’ word, I’d like to withdraw any element of accusation, implied or otherwise, that might be construed as personal in nature. No place for such in this Forum.
There was possibly some reactive element to my comment. It does jar a bit with me when superlatives like ‘best’ are applied to things that are essentially subjective in nature, but that is my problem. As you’ve rightly pointed out, your own comments are subject to ‘IMO’. But, then, all our posts are just that, expressions of our opinions, and we don’t have to labour it.
You’ve argued passionately for your passion for music and that is good enough for me.
Best
Lonan
Lonan,
Most of us here are passionate about music and misunderstandings can happen. Thank you for your gracious remarks – much appreciated. No offense taken. All’s well that ends well.
Weight is not slam it’s hag time of each note. Less weight is thin more weight is meaty has more details of each note but not fast but slow so we can hear more of each piano key or guitar pluck
Air the effective sound of ambience of the Recording medium or location meaning studio I know some of this is completely made up in the recording process but it’s still what I like
Without the two I loose the focus of being there. It’s why I say it’s less musical without it.
It’s why. I think some prefer 121 over pike and Yale.
I hope this makes sense to some of you.
And if so say thanks to the Nyc transit system for making me have time to reflect on this lol.
And if not oh well just another try at making sense to the masses and failing.
Al
alrainbow said
I understand that point and I am lucky to have a few . But I also got meets and hear and take some of my stuff . The ds and my server is one I do . Also some other dacs a d headphones amps . Thus has allowed me to hear great changes firm just one let's dac like the ds. It may be why my views are a so odd to most or all here .
You would be shocked just different your dac sounds on other setups . It opens up a whole new world of problems for voicing it.
Al,
Having owned more DACs in the past 10 years than you can shake a stick at, I can understand what you are all about here.
Duke posts how he feels and is always respectful. His passion comes through his posts, and everyone who posts its there own opinion even if a new be is way off its still there’s.
Taking away even slight temperament is wrong and sometimes some of are just that wrong me Included. Maybe it’s my hard Nyc attitude but it is what I am. And the truth is some level of tapping around comments and over the top politeness is just a bit too much for me.
I do not like to fight but I do like to argue and that is something one way or another we all do.
And it should be allowed to some degree as in other forums. If someone is hurt say it most here would gladly apologize as I would.
Too much sterility is just that boron and lacks real passion.
Sorry all its how I see things and hey it’s just my own opinion
Elk you are one person who can navigate very well in an argument and I am sure i would.loose too .
I while back I made a statement that I have come understand just how stupid ot was . It was about compression and how I liked it well maybe for back ground music to keep a level but for listening pleasure it’s not at all wanted at east not for me . You and others here were kind and try ed to sway me .
It took a little while but boy was in wrong . Of only someone was just little more like hey your carry or something lol.inwouod have learned a little faster .
I am delighted we can help, but no one loses in a discussion like that. We hear opposing views, obtain more information and greater understanding, and then reach our own conclusions.
It is just like my post above noting I do not understand that certain firmware keeps some from tapping their toes. This does not make sense to me and is not part of my experience. I hope to learn from those who find this to be the case.
Toe tapping that’s funny it’s a good way to say it’s loved not just ok. But I am with you I some ways about this. For its mood and judgement that makes it toe tappin or not. If my first judgement makes me smile it’s on it’s way. Even if I am Ina great mood I may still toe tap but not for long. The first time I heard 121 I smiled but that went away with format change
pike was crazy but naked me happy and then very happy when I loaded it a few times and it sounded much better. It’s till good to me. So for tapping but Yale is future pike to me and make me tap more.
Elk said
It is just like my post above noting I do not understand that certain firmware keeps some from tapping their toes. This does not make sense to me and is not part of my experience. I hope to learn from those who find this to be the case.
If you have a significant other or other smaller units running around you might covertly watch them as you change firmware. Often my wife pokes her head up and says, "What did you change?" (even when she has no idea that I might be changing something.) One of the things I always do when I'm getting near the end is to play Shaggy loud and listen for her dancing somewhere in the house.
But I do not doubt others experience different firmwares or equipment this way. I simply do not, and am trying to grok how/why others do.
I may not experience music in this way, or the answer may be, the all-telling “because.” Perhaps it is related to why I find football, baseball, basketball stultifyingly boring. Sometimes we are just hardwired the way we are.
I do something along the lines of what Ted suggested, but in my case when I ask people to listen to my system I sit and watch them very carefully without it being too obvious. It’s quite interesting what you can tell in body movements, facial expressions, and the like.
With regard to your comment, Elk, about maybe not experiencing music the same way as others, I think that’s a fundamental given for pretty much anyone. IME there is no guarantee one person will respond to a given piece of music the same way as someone else, or even be drawn to it by the same characteristics. My best audio bud is not partial to classical music. He’s a musician and has a very wide knowledge in most any other form. Yet he can identify subtle characteristics from popular, folk, or small vocal jazz ensembles that I can sometimes only do with classical pieces that I know very well, unless he and I talk as he guides me through his observations (the opposite is true as well, me for him). Why is it he can do certain things with some forms of music that I can only do as well with others? I don’t know. I suspect we all have our own “music meters” that are tuned in slightly different ways. Maybe those of us who find something right about 1.2.1 are just attuned to that characteristic with the right combination of FW and music.
If you have a significant other or other smaller units running around you might covertly watch them as you change firmware. Often my wife pokes her head up and says, “What did you change?” (even when she has no idea that I might be changing something.) One of the things I always do when I’m getting near the end is to play Shaggy loud and listen for her dancing somewhere in the house.
When my wife asks if I changed something, that is a negative signal (meaning, she liked it better the way it was). Likewise, when she turns down the volume that is a bad signal (usually after I have experimented with cable changes). I know when she likes a change if she either asks if we have previously listened to a particular piece of music (an indication of major, positive hardware change) or turns up the volume (noise has been reduced by tweaks, for example). Luckily, we both like the same quality of sound. In fact, my wife gave me a new appreciation of listening at lower volume levels and my system has changed to sound better at those levels. Of course, when she is attending to videophile proclivities, I’m blasting my favorite stuff (two separate systems). Getting good sound at lower volumes also benefits the higher SPLs.
alrainbow said
Duke posts how he feels and is always respectful. His passion comes through his posts, and everyone who posts its there own opinion even if a new be is way off its still there's.
Taking away even slight temperament is wrong and sometimes some of are just that wrong me Included. Maybe it’s my hard Nyc attitude but it is what I am. And the truth is some level of tapping around comments and over the top politeness is just a bit too much for me.
I do not like to fight but I do like to argue and that is something one way or another we all do.
And it should be allowed to some degree as in other forums. If someone is hurt say it most here would gladly apologize as I would.
Too much sterility is just that boron and lacks real passion.
Sorry all its how I see things and hey it’s just my own opinion
al
Al,
When I was young we used to spend a lot of time in NYC with friends and relatives. I am sure some of their ways rubbed off on me – rough and tumble. The quest for “over the top politeness” on the forum is also “a bit too much for me”. Like you, I do enjoy a good argument – as long as it is not a fight. There’s a big difference. I agree that this should be allowed here. I grew up in a feisty environment – everyone either agreed or agreed to disagree. My statements here have never been intended to hurt others and, like you, I will gladly apologize if anyone’s feelings have been hurt by them. I also agree with you that trying to create a sterile environment creates a boring environment. Trying to sanitize the forum and enforce audio political correctness, a.k.a conformity, either with respect to content or with respect to style of expression, takes the feeling and passion out of the discussion. We all have our different ways of expressing ourselves and should not be criticized for how we do so here – as long as we are respectful of others. For me, music is about passion and I often express myself passionately when talking about music. If I were not passionate about it I would not have taken 10 years and a lot of money and trouble to put together my system.
I stated in one of my earlier posts how I feel I am similar to you. I reiterate that statement in response to your post here. I appreciate your understanding that I am indeed always respectful – with which the moderator does not agree. If a post of mine is misunderstood and misquoted/edited then that’s unfortunate. The fact is that I have always respected the views of others on the forum, as you point out. This has been misunderstood and misrepresented – and reiterated as though, by repeating the falsehood, it will be transformed into the truth. Now we see the moderator talking about how my comments are now “much more tempered and respectful” – which reinforces the myth that they were disrespectful in the first place. They were not. I feel we have flogged this poor horse to death and that we can agree to disagree here. It is time to let this matter rest in peace.
Like you, this is how I see things – just my own opinion.