Any way to convert DSD 128 files to DSD 64?

Thanks much Ted, I think I understood now.

What I understood is, that -6dB can easily be avoided by the one or other program, but this isn’t a guarantee, that there wasn’t a lower sample rate involved in the process.

Question is: is there any chance to identify if a lower sample rate was involved by analyzing or comparing the source and target file of a program that avoids -6dB?

jazznut said is there any chance to identify if a lower sample rate was involved by analyzing or comparing the source and target file of a program that avoids -6dB?
Probably not very easily: If you have the tools, you can convert the DSD to, say, PCM at the lowest DSD sample rate and by running test tones thru the conversion you may be able to see a different frequency response - but since having converted to 352.8kHz PCM will preserve everything up to 176.4kHz and the noise in DSD starts growing outside the audio band, seeing if a conversion to 352.8k (or higher) happened will be hard. Many claim that there's an (usually subtle) audio quality difference between editing on the Sonoma and the Pyramix (which converts to 352.8kHz on edits.)

You can trust people like Roon to tell you if they convert to a lower sample rate (probably not if they claim they don’t go to PCM). I’m pretty sure that the on the fly conversion in foobar2000 with the DSD processor go thru PCM (but you do get to set the PCM sample rate). I’d guess that JRiver goes thru PCM as well, but they may not.

Still if you can’t hear a difference that bothers you you shouldn’t worry about it too much. These differences are much smaller than those between two good (but different) mastering jobs. Most of the music from 2L (and a few other places) was recorded in 352.8k and I don’t think many would claim that that significantly hurts their work.

Thanks much again Ted!

Although in my perception differences between good masterings can be huge, I’m sure I wouldn’t hear such differences if a PCM conversion was involved.

I also don’t bother if SACD/DSD was PCM originated. In my (exaggerated) perception 3/4 of the SACD/DSD recordings are from PCM files anyway. All that ncluding CD sounds so good n the DS anyway.

I just tried to do the best in conversion from the beginning. So as I currently don’t use Roon and need offline conversion, I will stay with the two only other options I experienced not to do the -6 dB drop (Tascam and Korg) and assume these also have the highest chance not to have PCM conversion involved and if they do, I probably couldnt differentiate anyway.

We are all blessed that Ted takes the time to educate us - I learn something every time I read his thoughts. He’s a brilliant and patient man.

2 Likes

A big +1!

Indeed the patience and the effort Ted answers us dummies and stands our partly silly and unqualified comments and opinions I really admire. I’m very thankful!

It’s like the option to talk with Coltrane about Jazz :wink:

Ted’s one of a kind. Given how much time he must spend responding to us it’s a wonder he manages to get real work done. Maybe he doesn’t sleep. However he does it, we are all deeply grateful.

amgradmd said

So I have recorded a ton of vinyl (over 100 LPs) in DSD 128 with the NPC. Many of these are my brother’s amazing record collection, which is why I got the NPC in the first place. I wanted to archive his vinyl in the best way possible so I could give it back to him without too much wear and tear. The vinyl rips sound amazing and I’m very happy with them. Now I have a problem, and I think may of you suspect what it is. I am getting the Bridge II today and it only plays DSD64 (WHY?!!) so I now have to find a way to down-convert my albums. I tried through Vinyl Studio but you can only record DSD in the original resolution chosen for recording, i.e. DSD 128, in my case. JRiver has a conversion function, but it makes the DSD 64 files at least 10 dB quieter, which is suboptimal. Plus, I wonder if it goes through a PCM intermediary conversion. It probably does. Regardless, do you guys know of another method to down-convert DSD 128 to 64 and keep the same output level? I guess I could convert to PCM 24/192 and then to DSD 64 but that defeats the whole purpose of recording in DSD. The thought of re-recording all of these LPs makes me nauseated. I may just convert to 24/196 in Vinyl Studio and be done with it, honestly, unless I can find an acceptable solution.

Oh, I almost forgot, I guess I could use HQPlayer and output to DSD64 by default, but I’d like to get away from that program and let my DS DAC take care of filtering and noise-shaping and such on it’s own. Thanks.

Adam


Doesn’t Roon do this? Can’t you take native DSD128 and convert to DSD64 in Roon? Don’t you HAVE to do this with native DSD128 if you use Bridge ii (since the maximum DSD rate you can feed through Bridge ii into the DSJ is DSD64)?

Yes, Roon does this. As I detailed above, Roon just recently started downconverting DSD 128 directly to DSD 64 in build 216 which was released a week ago. Before that Roon would downconvert From 128 to 64 via PCM intermediary which I don’t think sounded as good, at least to my ears, although I admit it might be wishful listening bias.

Remark to DSD conversion and my previous recommendation:

I now saw that the Tascam tool, which doesn’t add a -6dB level drop is documented as not going over PCM conversion. I assume it’s the same with the Korg tool.

http://tascam.com/product/hi-res_editor/

“Editing high-resolution DSD/PCM files
This editor app supports the highest-resolution DSD (DSF/DSDIFF) and PCM (WAV) available. DSD formats of 2.8–11.2 MHz and PCM formats of 44.1–384 kHz and 16/24/32-bit are supported. Native editing of DSD files is supported without conversion to PCM (although conversion is also available.)”

Sorry to bump this thread, but it was the most appropriate one I found.

I am getting my head around all this DSD stuff and what a DSJ can provide for me (I don’t own one … yet.)

Anyhow, apart from Roon, is there anything else out there that will send native DSD files/data to the DSJ via Ethernet?

Like amgradmd, I don’t want to run a long USB cable from my PC and in any event I can’t.

Thanks

Welcome to the forum!

The Bridge cannot accept Native DSD streams. DSD files have to be wrapped as DoP files. That just makes them look like PCM files so they can be transmitted over UPnP but they are still true DSD files (not actually converted to PCM–the DS will treat them as DSD files). A number of programs can do that (Jriver Media Center, minimserver, etc.). The Bridge is limited to DSD64 (single rate DSD).

Thanks for the reply Steve.

I might start a new thread with some basic questions so I don’t run into any gotchas

Thanks

Andy

I just wanted to add here, that since Ted recommended to downconvert to PCM 176,4 (for math and therefore possible sq reasons) instead of downconverting to any DSD format, I do this.

@tedsmith, do you still recommend the above for owners of the DS.

The DSD to DSD conversions out there are better than they used to be. As always, let your ears be the guide, but I’d think that DSD to DSD conversions which are direct (don’t go thru lower rate PCM, e.g. 176.4, 352.8…) should be pretty good these days.

I use Korg Audio Gate and the only guess I have it’s a direct conversion is, that it doesn’t have the 6dB loss. Not sure if this is the proper indicator.