Belden ICONOCLAST Interconnects and Speaker Cabling

[bstanwick]

Street_Still_Works: Vandersteen speakers use a barrier strip with screws only and will not accept a regular sized spade connector or a banana, so the only options are adapters or re-terminate. They don’t even supply a jumper, as they recommend bi-wiring.

Galen: It’s nice to know that the Furutech connectors are an option if I order new. However, I was considering a used pair that have the standard spades on them. Any suggestion for an adapter from the standard spade down to a narrow spade and a jumper to go from the treble to bass terminals. I also want to keep the door open for possible purchase of PS Audio speakers when they come out, so the standard spades on the speaker end would be the best option long term.

What I currently have is a set to Transparent SA4 banana to narrow spade adapters that will also take a standard spade and a set of anti-cables jumpers. Just wondering if there is something of better quality out there to consider?

On a separate subject, the pics posted for the used speaker cable have black and red jackets, whereas the pic in the pricing PDF that I have shows black and blue jackets. Is the color difference in the grade of copper used, or the year of production?

[stevem2]

Galen, welcome to the discussion board! You have a lot of friends and admirers here and we all look forward to seeing ICONOCLAST finally get the marketing attention it deserves. People need to know these marvelous cables are out there.

[wglenn]

Welcome Galen!!

[Elk]

Hi, Galen

Great to see you here!

[jazzbirder]

Dear Galen,

I also enjoy your info. about cables ! I hope to buy your interconnects soon !

[rower30]

Bill,

The best system is the one that WORKS with minimal connectivity. If you get a set of leads, I can RE-TERMINATE with the FURUTECH spades. Just buy proper QTY sets of the spades and send them to me with the cable and I’ll git’er done for you. Free. Let me know, I’ll give you my secret address (ha!).

The jacket color is for the price class of the copper. The BLUE is SPTPC (silver plated ETPC copper) or OFE (oxygen free certified copper) @$4600.00. The RED jacket are bare ETPC copper @ $2300.00

The sound differences are as such;

ETPC are very fast and dynamic with an excellent left / right/front/back soundstage. Excellent holographic space around each instrument / event.

OFE - On most systems, these are WARMER leads. They pull the image FORWARD and as a result of that, not as dramatic a sound stage as the ETPC. On “hot” systems they will tone it down.

SPTPC - The silver is ONLY a thin layer on top of the copper and thus, can’t change the fundamentals at all, just the harmonic overtones. Those with Beryllium tweeter or electrostatic speakers approve of the added “air”.

For Vandertseen’s I would use the ETPC or the SPTPC as they are already a very smooth speaker and a little quickness and dynamics in the presentation are good. They aren’t real efficient, so the extra contrast and open sound stage is what you want unless you like a way warmer presentation.

All cables are physically and electrically IDENTICAL R, L and C testing, except for the copper’s material phase contributions to the electromagnetic wave, that accounts for the difference in the sound. We hear PHASE and arrival times very well. The low inductance also improves PHASE (QED paper), but the copper is also changing the superimposed electromagnetic wave, altering the sound. As the conductor is ISOLATED (exact same structure holding the wire), the draw science/grain is fully responsible for the changes. No one will admit that the exact SCIENCE of WHAT is happening hasn’t been repeatably defined. If you can’t repeat what you know you don’t know it from a test or sound reference.

See the QED paper (http://www.qed.co.uk/downloads/pdf/soundofscience.pdf) for PHASE responses, and how copper’s structure can alter what we think may be happening to the creation of the electromagnetic wave. I can’t DEFINE the exact measures of the copper, so it is a transparent choice. True, it is hard to listen to bi-amp leads as they are special to Vandersteen.

All cables should be a pre-conceived management of electrical properties. The physics described in the QED paper are very real, and EVERY cable will respond to those properties. The trick is ti BALANCE all the variables to a structured design that offers as good a balance as can be achieved at a given cost. The best cables SHOULD be able to EXPLAIN why the cables work, and as physical proximity of all the wires is responsible for the R, L and C you should seek out WHY the wires are structured as they are. Cable should not be an accident that happens to not be a short!

Thank you for your interest in ICONOCLAST

[rower30]

Lots of questions on the 4x4 XLR and 1x4 RCA (XLR=four conductors made from 4 wires and the RCA = one wire made from four wires).

The change is MEASURED below. The lower DCR is ALWAYS a plus to remove noise components (signal stays louder than the noise). The Rs is also flatter at higher frequencies (lower two traces). Also advantageous is that the surface area is much higher, lowering the impedance at high frequencies where attenuation is the worst. What we HEAR most of though, is the improved current coherence through the 0.010" verses 0.018" wires that comprise each “conductor”.

Skin depth is ALWAYS the same in ANY like material wire, so the smaller it is, the more even the current distribution is through the wire. To use smaller wires, I also could lower inductance about ~30% as well which also better time aligns the cable. Capacitance goes UP but at audio, the -3dB filter roll off is WAY, WAY above audible so a slight change in cap isn’t a huge issue. Physics forces the issue, I don’t. The DESIGN has to make sure we are still very low so 50% increase is only 12.5 pf/foot to 17.5 pF/foot on average. Inductance drops from 0.15uH/foot to 0.11 uH/foot.

Why is the original cable different? It is an AES / EBU compliant DIGITAL impedance at RF and analog audio both, cable. The new 4x4 and 1x4 are analog ONLY designs that needed some carful processes set-up to make once the DESIGN was completed. Oh, it had to really work, too. The AES / EBU XLR and RCA cables remain as they are super low CAP for DIGITAL applications.

I can send a more detailed paper to those interested. ICONOCLAST is driven by RESULTS that nudge the cable towards “nothingness”.

[magicknow]

Hi Galen

Regarding distribution have you considered PS Audio? I know Paul expressed interest in selling these cables. It seems like an ideal match.

magicknow

[rower30]

Yes, but it gets more complicated than thinking about it. The overall mix of cables may be too narrow or too broad. The timing of product mix is also important. What and when, is a critical supply attribute.

I have the AES/EBU digital and analog RCA and XLR and speaker cables developed. For HDMI we have perfect path and Ethernet is well covered at Belden. But, all products need to be a consumer presentation as well as electricals. This can take a good deal of time even if the core electricals are good.

I agree that PSAudio is a good cultural match, get the very best you can at the lowest price. The best is not cheap, but it can still be a significant value. Companies with a strict diet of measurable development are rare.

Thank you for placing ICONOCLAST in the same public space as PSAudio!

Galen Gareis

[frank7036]

I just tried to contact Bob Howard at Belden to purchase Iconoclast cables and received the email reply ;
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 5.3.0 - Other mail system problem 550-‘5.1.1 User Unknown’

Does anyone know if Bob has also departed Belden?? If he has, how do we now purchase the cables??

[frank7036]

Hi Galen
Do you happen to know if Bob has left Belden? His email isn’t working anymore and
I want to purchase some speaker cables.
Regards. Frank

[Streets_Still_Works]

Bob’s phone numbers listed on his emails are 850-516-5365 (mobile) and 850-564-4952 (Home Office)

[frank7036]

Hi SSS
So Bobs still at Belden? Yes I have a couple of emails from him. Would the time be okay to call him, not sure whether it is 8:30 or 9:30am.
It’s 11pm for me right now.
Regards. Frank

[Streets_Still_Works]

I think Bob is in Florida, so that’s 9:30 AM right now. But I don’t know if he still works for Belden as I got my cables 6 months ago.

Give him a call, if he replies that he no longer works for Belden let me know and I’ll take his phone numbers off the board.

[frank7036]

Just got off the phone talking to Bob. He has also departed Belden and is Now working with Glen to keep Iconaclast on the market via Blue Jeans cable company. I’m going to order the cable though Bob. It’s great to hear we haven’t lost access to great wire builds!
Thank you for suggesting I call Bob. His telephone numbers should stay up.
Regards. Frank

[cxp]

Thanks for update, the Iconoclast website went down a couple months ago.

It’s great they are working with BJC.

[rower30]

Hi Frank,

Good news! I’m retired from Belden after 35 years to the day June 15 but, this is partly to work with Blue Jeans Cable to market ICONOCLAST as it needs to be.

We want to expand the affordability by really working on the prices. So we expect some price compression in your favor.

Bob is also working with BJC to make Iconoclast properly placed in the market. We can’t keep making cables on such a small, and expensive, scale.

We want best in class design and the fairest prices possible.

The new RCA and XLR 4X4 interconnect for audio are getting very good responses from beta testers.

The original designs are still with us but they are DIGITAL AES/EBU cable. The 4x4 won’t be optimal for digital.

Best,
Galen Gareis

[pmotz]

Galen, any idea went the new distribution method (Blue Jean Cable) will be active? Also, any thought of reducing the minimum length speaker cable? It was 10’, but many of us can use much shorter, 6’ for me.

[rower30]

Frank,

Here is the beta test conclusion; most felt 10 footers meet 80% of the “need” where the 1 meter model meet less than half of user’s length needs. ICONOCLAST cable is expensive to make, and we want to offer a realistic length with the price so customers don’t feel like the advertised price is “fake news” and is really too short to use for most of you.

In my own system, the 5 foot interconnect and 10 foot speaker works really well but yes, they COULD be shorter down to within inches of perfection but, the standard lengths are an easy fit. Now that was then at Belden in low volumes, let’s go to now at Blue Jeans…

We can make the leads shorter (too a point, as air tubes need more bend diameter than solid dielectric cable), and we will have a matrix model to allow this to happen for you. It will be a build type drop down list to price out your cable, automatically.

I STILL recommend the 5 and 10 foot model as future proof is nearly always meet with those lengths. But, as they say buyer beware when the choice is available. I want to see people get the best use over time as possible.

Galen

[rower30]

Some requests for contact info;

Technical contact, till we get Blue Jeans going is; galen.gareis@gmail.com

The data is pretty much pure tech, and not consumerized, but it is WHY the cables are made the way they are, and measured to demonstrate capability to this changes in design.

We sell purity of the design in ICONOCLAST. My feeling is that the pure R, L and C have to be correct or every other aspect of the cable can’t really reach optimization. Yes, those arguments about things we can’t measure are tied to R, L and C. If you could buy cable with zero R, L and C we certainly would. The catch-22 is what to pay for as near to that ideal as technology can get? This is really the argument, the price of perfection, same as speakers, amps ETC.

We offer cables that show you how we get there, and were “there” actually is (test report with every assembly). No one has a spec for what it sounds like.

Current industry standards on copper can’t measure sound, either, resistivity and grains, yes. But, these aren’t a sound, merely purely measured individual attributes. Copper wire can take many forms based on draw speed and the methods used to drive out impurities. We stick to industry standard materials but yes, there are MANY types of copper. We offer a choice of three basic forms ETPC, OFE (above OFHC) and UP OCC. In actual measure, the resistivity is too close to see in a typical assembly. L and C are IDENTICAL. They do sound different, and the price of the copper isn’t really a good indicator of what you will like.

We may have detractors from our pure measured and calculated performance model, but this is really what we have to work with. HOW the numbers are achieved do matter in listening tests, and I had to take the liberty to use AIR near the wire in interconnects as this had a big impact on the upper harmonic openness of the cable in use. The small electromagnetic signal showed a real preference for AIR nearest the wire.

Using AIR dielectric changes how much it cost to make the cable, and actually has ZERO measured proof it is the right thing to do except for the SIZE of the cable! Cable size and connectivity issue are also rolled into he dielectric design decisions. R, L and C are bulk numbers, not designs. Using the cables will tell you if I made the right decisions to reach R, L and C.

-Galen Gareis