Paul I know chances are low for the above mentioned Roon Endpoint and you really tried to give as much information as actually makes sense…there’s just one thing I didn’t understand yet: where’s the difference between an endpoint for Roon or Jriver in terms of possible implementation with low chance? Do both have the same (low) Chance or only Roon?
I do not believe JRiver makes an endpoint available. They are a UPnP based protocol something we will be doing away with (finally!) in bridge III. ROON has their own protocol that is not UPnP based.
That is correct. UPnP based controllers won’t work. Of course, any server or network share—UPnP or otherwise—will work just fine. The only limitation to a non-UPnP program is the controllers won’t work - and since most UPnP controllers are less than wonderful, I don’t see that as a big loss.
markus46 said
[Octave] it would have to significantly better in features and performance in order for me to feel OK about writing off my Meridian Sooloos/Roon endpoints which would become obsolete if I made the switch.
Perfectly reasonable.
So it's not as simple as "Switch to Octave if you find it better".
It is as easy, or as difficult, as you care to make it :)
Quick question…given it seems BridgeII continues to do what it does even with the DS in standby (evidenced by Spotify control point finds BridgeII even when the DS is put to sleep). If I’m streaming Spotify and put my system to sleep without using the control point to stop playback, is BridgeII still soaking up all those ones and zeros from the internet, and thus continuing to consume my monthly ISP data allowance?
+1 (The thing I miss the most in Bridge II/Roon is support for DSD128)
Is there any additional information anywhere describing the thoughts around the user experience in Octave? Since I have been using iTunes, Slim devices Transporter (iPeng), Aurender (Conductor App) and now Roon, I have come to appreciate the additional metadata provided in Roon, so to be competitive - I think Octave has to match that to be competitive. I totally disagree with the statement that Roon users are “DIY-ers” and/or “tweakers” - on the contrary, what I appreciate the most is that you don’t have to groom your metadata since Roon will do it automatically as long as it can identify your album. Also, with the introduction of Rock and Nucleus, Roon server is to be seen as an appliance that you can treat as a black box that you fire-up and forget.
Still, competition is always good and I will approach Octave with open eyes when available and hopefully it will be as good or even better!
If there is a vote going around, ROON is a no for me. Or rather, I don’t care one way or the other.
What I have now is something that has been simmering down over time from a big pot of boiling HiFi stew.
For my CD collection I can’t tell the difference between CD copy ripped to Kaleidescape server and the same CD spun in a DMP.
The difference between spinning a CD or playing it back from a server compared to Spotify Premium is marginal at best. Kaleidescape control point and Spotify control point are equally brilliant. They are intuitive and work all the time, so I’m not looking at anything else in that regard.
My SACD collection is quite sparse so it’s hard to justify keeping a SACD spinner just to spin the occasional SACD (Kaleidescape and Spotify Premium do not support SACD resolution). When it comes to HiRez audio, my experience with HD Tracks and the SQ of so-called hi-rez content does not compel me to remain with it.
Whilst I have a DAC that supports DSD512, there is no DSD512 content currently available, and my brief experience with <=DSD256 does not compel me to invest in continuing building a DSD library at this time.
Contemplating all of the above the insurmountable conclusion is there is nothing wrong with CD resolution, and there isn’t much to be missed with higher resolution content. Spotify stays, and Kaleidescape can take care of the movies. Nothing else required.
Christian said: “I totally disagree with the statement that Roon users are “DIY-ers” and/or “tweakers””.
I looked back through the posts to find the use of the (apparently) offensive words.
Karl Salnoske said:
“This is really the age old discussion of which is better – an open system like Windows where you have a lot of different players involved leading to some complexity for the user or a closed system like Apple where they can control the complete user experience by controlling all of the components in the chain. The DIY’ers and tweakers will want an open system so they can tweak to their hearts content. However, the great masses just want something that is easy to install, easy to use, doesn’t require a technical degree, and works every time. It appears that the tweakers can continue to use the Bridge II or use the other DSD inputs to try all sorts of upstream renders and converters (Sonare, SoTM, AudioByte, Berkeley, etc).“
Perhaps if he had left the “The” off the beginning of the sentence, it would’ve read to all as it was intended. I could not find a statement that suggested Roon users are DIYers and tweakers. I am a partial DIYer and tweaker (as are many of us) and a Roon user.
There seems to have been a number of points where terms were used (including my offhand use of the term “haters”, and Paul using the term “off the rails”) that has led to a greater than usual us-vs.-them strain in this thread.
Part of the confusion IMO stems from calling the B3 a Bridge (as previously discussed) and also that “Octave” is serving (haha) as the name of the planned physical server product, as well as the software that runs on it AND the B3. So with respect to the Roon discussion, “Octave” software is a replacement/competing product, but often in the discussion, “Octave” is used to refer to the standalone server box.
Roon is a great program and hardly for DIY. It’s the slickest and best presentation of metadata connecting artists and music together I have seen. We will have Octave try and be as inclusive, for sure, but perhaps a little easier to simply use as a music management device. I find Roon to be a little onerous for simply using it to play tracks…but nothing’s better for discovering music and connecting with it. I would say Octave will be as good as Roon in that department, and perhaps better in simply playing tracks - like iTunes.
Personally I am not really a fan of Roon SQ wise, so no issues. Looking forward to Octave when Paul & Co. have introduce it to the world (end of 2018?)
Somehow people have taken the term DIYer and tweeker as pejorative and I certainly didn’t intend it that way. If fact, I am one of these, which is probably one reason I enjoy the audio hobby. I was really just trying to point out the difference between an “open” system like Roon where there is an open standard and any manufacturer can play or a closed or all-in-one system where one company provides all the pieces. There are pros and cons to both and open is generally most attractive to those who like to try different parts or components from different manufacturers in an attempt to extract the maximum performance.
In my current network I have about a dozen different Roon endpoints in different systems. I like to play around with them and compare. However, I have a friend who wanted a whole house system that was easy to install and use, didn’t require any technical skills, and just worked all the time. For her, we went with Bluesound. She enjoys it very much because it meets her needs and I get a lot of enjoyment from messing around with my much more complex system. I’m streaming Christmas music around the house right now with the PSA DSD and a SoTM sms-200 Ultra connected via I2S as the RAAT device feeding my whole house distribution amp to wired speakers in each room + 3 other RAAT devices driving dedicated systems in specific rooms. It works great but my friend can do the same with many fewer components and button pushes. Of course, I think mine sounds better.
I am a new (one week old) PS Audio DS / Bridge II owner.
One of the reasons why I switched to the DS / Bridge II was the one box solution, upgrade history and… Octave.
I actively listen only to classical music. Roon has been on my “try” list for a while, but I have not been overwhelmed by positive reviews from like minded classical music lovers. The features most people like in Roon have nothing to do with my music preferences. As far as discovering new music, the perusal of classical music forums and blogs yields far more music than I could ever consume and Tidal usually has that music.
I have tried Bubbleupnp app, Linn Kazoo, Lumin App, mConnect, never could get jRemote to work…and finally settled on Lumin App as my “go to” app. I need Bubbleupnp Server residing on my NAS along with Minimserver in an OpenHome emulation. There are occasional glitches but it works most of the time.
Why does this have to be so complicated?
I wholeheartedly am on Paul McGowan’s side with regards to Octave. Please give me something that allows me to choose and play my music easily… to load music on my NAS and have it seen by the control point without fiddling…that is intuitive…that works without glitches. I have my a fully functional NAS, I have ethernet connectivity to the Bridge, I have a solid LAN / Internet connection, all I want is something with a decent GUI that works without glitches and without fiddling. Please.
We too are classical lovers and one of our strongest proponents and fellow developer of Octave is Richard Murrison, cofounder of Bit Perfect (along with his son Tim who is programming the core of Octave). Richard is a total classical nutjob (the best kind) and he keeps us on track to make it easy and a pleasure to browse classical music and everything we love about it.
I wholeheartedly am on Paul McGowan’s side with regards to Octave. Please give me something that allows me to choose and play my music easily… to load music on my NAS and have it seen by the control point without fiddling…that is intuitive…that works without glitches. I have my a fully functional NAS, I have ethernet connectivity to the Bridge, I have a solid LAN / Internet connection, all I want is something with a decent GUI that works without glitches and without fiddling. Please.
It doesn’t have to be so complicated. My own music collection is 99% classical and for the moment I am using the Aurender X100 music server, which is a real joy to use. It stores the music on an internal conventional hard disc but plays in complete silence from an ssd to which tracks are copied. Input to the DAC is via USB, so no glitches from networking. It updates its database automatically when new albums are added via ftp. It has its own Conductor app for IOS devices (but only a rather poor beta version for Android). The app is generally excellent and trouble free, but with some not too serious reservations concerning the way classical music libraries have to be accessed. The app will also display high resolution album art for both the front and back of a CD if you take the trouble to input them. The unit will do internet radio, Qobuz and Tidal streaming. I do actually maintain a copy of the music library on a NAS with Minimserver and use the BubbleUPnP app on an Android tablet for controlling a separate music system. I haven’t come across the Lumin app before so it will be interesting to give that a whirl sometime. I look forward to becoming acquainted with the Octave hopefully in the not too distant future.
I am a Roon fan and presently use it with my Bridge II…I do agree that while it is probably the best option out there for me thus far it is far too complicated and could easily be improved through simplification…presently I have my Macbook pro as my core with an external hard drive attached and Tidal service…I play this through my living room system via Bridge II…I also take the laptop and external drive with me along with a chord Hugo 2 which provides me great portable music on the go…will the octave system also be able to be accessed away from the Bridge II ?That would make it very interesting for me!
@panostar Yes, prior to the purchase of the DS / Bridge II, I did very seriously consider the Aurender X100 because of the in house control point app (Conductor) and ease of use. Then I started reading about Octave and I was sold - American company, excellent history, excellent support, a forum where the company president is always contributing, reasonable prices (by audio standards), upgradeability, etc… I could buy into it now, live with what I was already use to, and wait for a year for Octave.
I know I am taking a risk because Octave does not exist yet, but I have confidence that it will be an outstanding achievement, perhaps even a game changer in this crazy digital audio world.
I use a Musica Pristina ACapella server connected via I2S hdmi to my DS which avoids usb. The sound is much better over I2S than usb with the DS. The MP uses it’s own music software to control music selection via my Surface. It has a 1TB SSD drive that holds all my music. It is so easy and simple to use with it’s ethernet connection. It sounds absolutely wonderful. I do not know much about Octave, but I hope that it will be such a device should I ever need to replace my Musica Pristina.